530d - Broken Swirl flap = Broken Engine
04-20-2009, 04:27 AM
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530d swirl flap failure - Dealer asking for ?1250 to perform the diagnosis...
This is for "compression tests, removing the inlet manifold, turbo pipes, removing cylinder head and inspecting, cylinder head gaskets, and refitting of the cylinder head if no further work is required circa 10.6 hours plus parts minus 10% discount plus VAT = ?1250."
Would anyone have a view if this is appropriate and reasonable?
In other forums I have read about figures for this at about ?600 (also for a 530d) and ?700 (for a 320d) - same diagnosis for the same reason.
I have the feeling that my dealership is simply milking me - as a customer with this issue they have you standing with your back against the wall.
BMW UK requires the full diagnosis to be performed before they can take any decision on goodwill.
I would appreciate if anyone would have some comparisons for me!!
Also I would be interested to know if anyone has ever taken any legal action against BMW?
This - as the various forum discussions confirm - is clearly an engineering fault. And the design of the swirl flaps was changed by BMW (no more metal parts involved that are the root cause regarding potential need to replace the engine in case of failure...)... and the manufacturer is liable for engineering/manufacturing faults well beyond the warranty period.
Many thanks for some views and hands-on experience with this!!
Stephan
This is for "compression tests, removing the inlet manifold, turbo pipes, removing cylinder head and inspecting, cylinder head gaskets, and refitting of the cylinder head if no further work is required circa 10.6 hours plus parts minus 10% discount plus VAT = ?1250."
Would anyone have a view if this is appropriate and reasonable?
In other forums I have read about figures for this at about ?600 (also for a 530d) and ?700 (for a 320d) - same diagnosis for the same reason.
I have the feeling that my dealership is simply milking me - as a customer with this issue they have you standing with your back against the wall.
BMW UK requires the full diagnosis to be performed before they can take any decision on goodwill.
I would appreciate if anyone would have some comparisons for me!!
Also I would be interested to know if anyone has ever taken any legal action against BMW?
This - as the various forum discussions confirm - is clearly an engineering fault. And the design of the swirl flaps was changed by BMW (no more metal parts involved that are the root cause regarding potential need to replace the engine in case of failure...)... and the manufacturer is liable for engineering/manufacturing faults well beyond the warranty period.
Many thanks for some views and hands-on experience with this!!
Stephan
04-20-2009, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by sbroec01' post='852571' date='Apr 20 2009, 08:27 AM
530d swirl flap failure - Dealer asking for ?1250 to perform the diagnosis...
This is for "compression tests, removing the inlet manifold, turbo pipes, removing cylinder head and inspecting, cylinder head gaskets, and refitting of the cylinder head if no further work is required circa 10.6 hours plus parts minus 10% discount plus VAT = ?1250."
Would anyone have a view if this is appropriate and reasonable?
In other forums I have read about figures for this at about ?600 (also for a 530d) and ?700 (for a 320d) - same diagnosis for the same reason.
I have the feeling that my dealership is simply milking me - as a customer with this issue they have you standing with your back against the wall.
BMW UK requires the full diagnosis to be performed before they can take any decision on goodwill.
I would appreciate if anyone would have some comparisons for me!!
Also I would be interested to know if anyone has ever taken any legal action against BMW?
This - as the various forum discussions confirm - is clearly an engineering fault. And the design of the swirl flaps was changed by BMW (no more metal parts involved that are the root cause regarding potential need to replace the engine in case of failure...)... and the manufacturer is liable for engineering/manufacturing faults well beyond the warranty period.
Many thanks for some views and hands-on experience with this!!
Stephan
This is for "compression tests, removing the inlet manifold, turbo pipes, removing cylinder head and inspecting, cylinder head gaskets, and refitting of the cylinder head if no further work is required circa 10.6 hours plus parts minus 10% discount plus VAT = ?1250."
Would anyone have a view if this is appropriate and reasonable?
In other forums I have read about figures for this at about ?600 (also for a 530d) and ?700 (for a 320d) - same diagnosis for the same reason.
I have the feeling that my dealership is simply milking me - as a customer with this issue they have you standing with your back against the wall.
BMW UK requires the full diagnosis to be performed before they can take any decision on goodwill.
I would appreciate if anyone would have some comparisons for me!!
Also I would be interested to know if anyone has ever taken any legal action against BMW?
This - as the various forum discussions confirm - is clearly an engineering fault. And the design of the swirl flaps was changed by BMW (no more metal parts involved that are the root cause regarding potential need to replace the engine in case of failure...)... and the manufacturer is liable for engineering/manufacturing faults well beyond the warranty period.
Many thanks for some views and hands-on experience with this!!
Stephan
04-20-2009, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by richiemail' post='852581' date='Apr 20 2009, 08:41 AM
This seems ridiculous, it's probably worth asking another dealer for a competing quote, of even getting an independent to make the check for you. I've got an 05 525d Auto, this thread has had conflicting information as to whether or not I have the flaps. I was planning to have my independent check and remove if they're there on the next service. I'm on 44K miles, so it's probably worth getting this done. I don't want to keep paying stealer prices for services, but if the flaps were to give I'd have no hope of BMW goodwill without full BMW service history...
I emailed PMW for blanking caps to be supplied and fitted. I was quoted ?234.60 which is very reasonable.
I've got 101k miles on my 2004 530d SE and look to get them done very soon.
04-20-2009, 10:04 AM
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I bought blanking plates from PMW but it turns out that my car has the updated manifold and the plates wont fit, I have a 03/ 2004 525D. Get your car checked before commiting to buying the plates. I was advised by PMW that i didnt need to remove the flaps which I have already done, however, I have heard that there have been instances of the updated manifold failing also.
They dont make plates for the updated manifold which is a pity, i wanted to make it a neater job than the self tapping screws.
They dont make plates for the updated manifold which is a pity, i wanted to make it a neater job than the self tapping screws.
04-20-2009, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by RobyO' post='587474' date='May 24 2008, 07:57 AM
Hello everybody,
Yesterday was a very bad day. I went to work with my car as usual, but after 20 meters I heard a cracking sound from the engine. I had no more power.
Called the road assistance to tow me to the garage. In the afternoon the mechanic called me to give me the verdict. A swirl flap from the intake manifold broke and was sucked into the engine. He told me it would cost me +/-10000 EUROS for a new engine since the warranty expired.
The other option he gave me, is to replace the piston, cylinder head, intake manifold, etc. + work for approximately 6000 EUROS.
He said it is a well known problem.
I called some other BMW dealers and they told me the same thing. I checked the E60 forums and found all about it. http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=46764&st=0
Now I'm wondering why BMW didn't recall all the affected models, when they knew this is a case of bad engineering. I haven't contacted BMW Belgium yet, but do you think they would repay me (even just a part of) the damages, since it is such a common problem?
My current engine has only done 65k km.
What is the best thing I can do?
1. Buy a new engine
2. Replace the broken parts
3. Buy a used engine (probably +100k or +150k km)
Yesterday was a very bad day. I went to work with my car as usual, but after 20 meters I heard a cracking sound from the engine. I had no more power.
Called the road assistance to tow me to the garage. In the afternoon the mechanic called me to give me the verdict. A swirl flap from the intake manifold broke and was sucked into the engine. He told me it would cost me +/-10000 EUROS for a new engine since the warranty expired.
The other option he gave me, is to replace the piston, cylinder head, intake manifold, etc. + work for approximately 6000 EUROS.
He said it is a well known problem.
I called some other BMW dealers and they told me the same thing. I checked the E60 forums and found all about it. http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=46764&st=0
Now I'm wondering why BMW didn't recall all the affected models, when they knew this is a case of bad engineering. I haven't contacted BMW Belgium yet, but do you think they would repay me (even just a part of) the damages, since it is such a common problem?
My current engine has only done 65k km.
What is the best thing I can do?
1. Buy a new engine
2. Replace the broken parts
3. Buy a used engine (probably +100k or +150k km)
Offer to pay part of the repair. Good faith on your part.
If he does not want to help, inform him politely that you want to escalate the situation to the next step. Use the proper chain of command; that helps too.
I approached GM when the rear end on my Trans Am became noisy at 50k miles. One owner, never abused, military too. Offered to pay half. My cost was $300. They fixed it. On the way home, it had a different noise; I offered to pay half again. Dealership owner refused to take any more money, and he did major overhaul on rear end. Mechanics are still eating the burgers, fries, ice cream that I dropped off afterwards.
04-20-2009, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sbroec01' post='852571' date='Apr 20 2009, 03:27 PM
530d swirl flap failure - Dealer asking for ?1250 to perform the diagnosis...
This is for "compression tests, removing the inlet manifold, turbo pipes, removing cylinder head and inspecting, cylinder head gaskets, and refitting of the cylinder head if no further work is required circa 10.6 hours plus parts minus 10% discount plus VAT = ?1250."
Would anyone have a view if this is appropriate and reasonable?
In other forums I have read about figures for this at about ?600 (also for a 530d) and ?700 (for a 320d) - same diagnosis for the same reason.
I have the feeling that my dealership is simply milking me - as a customer with this issue they have you standing with your back against the wall.
BMW UK requires the full diagnosis to be performed before they can take any decision on goodwill.
I would appreciate if anyone would have some comparisons for me!!
Also I would be interested to know if anyone has ever taken any legal action against BMW?
This - as the various forum discussions confirm - is clearly an engineering fault. And the design of the swirl flaps was changed by BMW (no more metal parts involved that are the root cause regarding potential need to replace the engine in case of failure...)... and the manufacturer is liable for engineering/manufacturing faults well beyond the warranty period.
Many thanks for some views and hands-on experience with this!!
Stephan
This is for "compression tests, removing the inlet manifold, turbo pipes, removing cylinder head and inspecting, cylinder head gaskets, and refitting of the cylinder head if no further work is required circa 10.6 hours plus parts minus 10% discount plus VAT = ?1250."
Would anyone have a view if this is appropriate and reasonable?
In other forums I have read about figures for this at about ?600 (also for a 530d) and ?700 (for a 320d) - same diagnosis for the same reason.
I have the feeling that my dealership is simply milking me - as a customer with this issue they have you standing with your back against the wall.
BMW UK requires the full diagnosis to be performed before they can take any decision on goodwill.
I would appreciate if anyone would have some comparisons for me!!
Also I would be interested to know if anyone has ever taken any legal action against BMW?
This - as the various forum discussions confirm - is clearly an engineering fault. And the design of the swirl flaps was changed by BMW (no more metal parts involved that are the root cause regarding potential need to replace the engine in case of failure...)... and the manufacturer is liable for engineering/manufacturing faults well beyond the warranty period.
Many thanks for some views and hands-on experience with this!!
Stephan
!I hope you get it resolved so that you're not the only one who's paying money... I can't say anything about that 1250? sorry.
By the way, the updated manifold still has metal flaps, they're just covered in rubber.
Anyways, welcome to the forums! Be active and keep us informed how it goes with the repair, please!
04-24-2009, 10:52 AM
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save yourself a load of cash & buy the mag Toatal BMW ?4.50P May issue. There is an article with diagrams of how to remove the inlet manifold, very easy to do, get a mate if you dont feel confident. Then you can inspect the swirl flaps yourself. Now the bad news, if the swirl flaps are broken the piston will proably be u/s, the head will need skimming if not replaced, also the turbo will also be shot, (sorry) about the bad news.
I am telling you this because my mate has just spent ?4000 on his 3 series to get it back on the road ?6000 if you go to BMW direct, he tried for 2 weeks to get something from BMW they did not want to know. Hope this helps, good luck
I am telling you this because my mate has just spent ?4000 on his 3 series to get it back on the road ?6000 if you go to BMW direct, he tried for 2 weeks to get something from BMW they did not want to know. Hope this helps, good luck
04-24-2009, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by tarquinn006' post='857706' date='Apr 24 2009, 09:52 PM
save yourself a load of cash & buy the mag Toatal BMW ?4.50P May issue. There is an article with diagrams of how to remove the inlet manifold, very easy to do, get a mate if you dont feel confident. Then you can inspect the swirl flaps yourself. Now the bad news, if the swirl flaps are broken the piston will proably be u/s, the head will need skimming if not replaced, also the turbo will also be shot, (sorry) about the bad news.
I am telling you this because my mate has just spent ?4000 on his 3 series to get it back on the road ?6000 if you go to BMW direct, he tried for 2 weeks to get something from BMW they did not want to know. Hope this helps, good luck
I am telling you this because my mate has just spent ?4000 on his 3 series to get it back on the road ?6000 if you go to BMW direct, he tried for 2 weeks to get something from BMW they did not want to know. Hope this helps, good luck
However there are instructions for inspection/removal job on the forum already, and they are free
.
04-25-2009, 01:33 AM
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I removed the flaps at the beginning of February, and recently decided to have a look to see if there were any error codes showing, using my Peake Meter, and the following errors appeared;
Rail Pressure regulating valve
Manifold pressure sensor
Twist Flap
Throttle Valve
Supply Voltage 6
Supply Voltage 3
Lambda Probe, Signal Pump Current.
I didn't have any errors at all showing prior to the removal of the flaps, so I would be obliged if anyone could throw any light on whether or not the above errors are due to the flaps removal,(the "Twist Flap" stands out as a fairly obvious one), and whether or not any action should be taken to try and eliminate the errors.
Rail Pressure regulating valve
Manifold pressure sensor
Twist Flap
Throttle Valve
Supply Voltage 6
Supply Voltage 3
Lambda Probe, Signal Pump Current.
I didn't have any errors at all showing prior to the removal of the flaps, so I would be obliged if anyone could throw any light on whether or not the above errors are due to the flaps removal,(the "Twist Flap" stands out as a fairly obvious one), and whether or not any action should be taken to try and eliminate the errors.
04-25-2009, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by eddie12' post='858396' date='Apr 25 2009, 05:33 AM
I removed the flaps at the beginning of February, and recently decided to have a look to see if there were any error codes showing, using my Peake Meter, and the following errors appeared;
Rail Pressure regulating valve
Manifold pressure sensor
Twist Flap
Throttle Valve
Supply Voltage 6
Supply Voltage 3
Lambda Probe, Signal Pump Current.
I didn't have any errors at all showing prior to the removal of the flaps, so I would be obliged if anyone could throw any light on whether or not the above errors are due to the flaps removal,(the "Twist Flap" stands out as a fairly obvious one), and whether or not any action should be taken to try and eliminate the errors.
Rail Pressure regulating valve
Manifold pressure sensor
Twist Flap
Throttle Valve
Supply Voltage 6
Supply Voltage 3
Lambda Probe, Signal Pump Current.
I didn't have any errors at all showing prior to the removal of the flaps, so I would be obliged if anyone could throw any light on whether or not the above errors are due to the flaps removal,(the "Twist Flap" stands out as a fairly obvious one), and whether or not any action should be taken to try and eliminate the errors.