Any Corvette ZR-1 Fans?
01-04-2008, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by poleposition' post='512867' date='Jan 3 2008, 12:49 AM
I have a simple response to your thoughts. It's a very small boutique sport that not too many people have heard of. It's called Formula1. Google it. I hear they have these really sick high revving V8 engines that go really fast. Even up a hill.
Pukka my friend, your brain is so fed up with american v8 fairy tales that you can't see anything else. American territory. Mith my friend!
01-04-2008, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC' post='512377' date='Jan 1 2008, 02:24 AM
...
And the best thing is the LS7 is lighter than the M3 V8.
And the best thing is the LS7 is lighter than the M3 V8.
01-04-2008, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' post='513555' date='Jan 4 2008, 05:09 AM
Are you sure this is a fact?
3 less cams, about 10% of the timing chain regalia found on an OHC design.
The reduction in the number of valves and rockers is likely offset by the addition of the pushrods.
Not having all of that valvegear makes the heads physically smaller and lighter.
I assume the LT9 has a larger bore size, and certainly a longer stroke (that's where the low end torque comes from).
It does have the supercharger, but the cutaway views show it to be pretty compact.
Its one reason GM has stuck with that design is that it is both compact and lighter than a comparable 32 valve OHC model.
01-04-2008, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by iversonm' post='513566' date='Jan 4 2008, 04:35 AM
I don't know for sure, but it is possible. For example, the pushrod design has:
3 less cams, about 10% of the timing chain regalia found on an OHC design.
The reduction in the number of valves and rockers is likely offset by the addition of the pushrods.
Not having all of that valvegear makes the heads physically smaller and lighter.
I assume the LT9 has a larger bore size, and certainly a longer stroke (that's where the low end torque comes from).
It does have the supercharger, but the cutaway views show it to be pretty compact.
Its one reason GM has stuck with that design is that it is both compact and lighter than a comparable 32 valve OHC model.
3 less cams, about 10% of the timing chain regalia found on an OHC design.
The reduction in the number of valves and rockers is likely offset by the addition of the pushrods.
Not having all of that valvegear makes the heads physically smaller and lighter.
I assume the LT9 has a larger bore size, and certainly a longer stroke (that's where the low end torque comes from).
It does have the supercharger, but the cutaway views show it to be pretty compact.
Its one reason GM has stuck with that design is that it is both compact and lighter than a comparable 32 valve OHC model.
01-04-2008, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' post='513553' date='Jan 4 2008, 05:07 AM
Bahahaha... so true!
Pukka my friend, your brain is so fed up with american v8 fairy tales that you can't see anything else. American territory. Mith my friend!
Pukka my friend, your brain is so fed up with american v8 fairy tales that you can't see anything else. American territory. Mith my friend!
Until somebody shows me a BMW engineered V8 that is better than an American one - Yep!!
01-04-2008, 07:48 AM
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I dont think you're giving the new M3 V8 enough credit. Also, your first response before you edited was a german engineered V8 and not a BMW engineered V8. How about the motors from AMG? They're pretty impressive as well, no?
01-04-2008, 02:01 PM
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I left out AMG because of two reasons:
1-I haven't really compared their engines performance wise against the Corvette
2-Mercedes has a similar concept to GM on high performance V8 engines, both use large displacement and lower revs to get their power.
But if you include cost into the equation then GM beats them too.
The M3 is an awesome car. Its just that I personally feel (against the opinions of many others) the M3 made a name for itself with and should have stuck with the I6. Yes, the first M3 had an I4 but that particular engine was really designed for racing since the maintenance specs were so strict. I think BMW could have done much more with the N/A I6.
I find it difficult to give the new M3 alot of credit because by switching to a V8, BMW puts it squarely against the Vette. For about $75k you can get either a new M3 or a new Z06. If you prefer power from a high revving V8 then go for it. Among many other reasons, I prefer the best performance for the money from a engine thats already been proven, and the American Big 3, particularly GM, certainly has a good track record with its V8's the LS6's specs speak for itself. GM figured out years ago with the 305/350ci engine that you can make gobs of power at low rpms and better fuel injection methods. But it appears GM may own the "high rev" concept as well since its been stated that the LS6 can perform at 8000 rpm with no problems, only intake and camshaft limitations keep it from making more power at that level.
Furthermore I don't quite agree with BMW's long term marketing strategy. Why tout a new M3 when a modded 335i can already give it a run for its money? What about 2-3 years from now when the new 5ers are released with TT V8's? How does the M3 evolve from there?
But when you break it down, it all boils down to what one prefers whether its a German or American V8 sports car - just drive happy
1-I haven't really compared their engines performance wise against the Corvette
2-Mercedes has a similar concept to GM on high performance V8 engines, both use large displacement and lower revs to get their power.
But if you include cost into the equation then GM beats them too.
The M3 is an awesome car. Its just that I personally feel (against the opinions of many others) the M3 made a name for itself with and should have stuck with the I6. Yes, the first M3 had an I4 but that particular engine was really designed for racing since the maintenance specs were so strict. I think BMW could have done much more with the N/A I6.
I find it difficult to give the new M3 alot of credit because by switching to a V8, BMW puts it squarely against the Vette. For about $75k you can get either a new M3 or a new Z06. If you prefer power from a high revving V8 then go for it. Among many other reasons, I prefer the best performance for the money from a engine thats already been proven, and the American Big 3, particularly GM, certainly has a good track record with its V8's the LS6's specs speak for itself. GM figured out years ago with the 305/350ci engine that you can make gobs of power at low rpms and better fuel injection methods. But it appears GM may own the "high rev" concept as well since its been stated that the LS6 can perform at 8000 rpm with no problems, only intake and camshaft limitations keep it from making more power at that level.
Furthermore I don't quite agree with BMW's long term marketing strategy. Why tout a new M3 when a modded 335i can already give it a run for its money? What about 2-3 years from now when the new 5ers are released with TT V8's? How does the M3 evolve from there?
But when you break it down, it all boils down to what one prefers whether its a German or American V8 sports car - just drive happy
01-04-2008, 02:28 PM
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Seems to me like this whole debate is comparing apples to oranges whether you're talking about motors or the cars. BMW Motorsport's philosophy has always been about high revving engines whether people like it or not; which is not to say it's good or bad. Why debate about which is better??
And why are we comparing a Vette to a BMW?? They're two different cars with different buying segments. Get both! =)
And why are we comparing a Vette to a BMW?? They're two different cars with different buying segments. Get both! =)
01-04-2008, 02:39 PM
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Just got my latest Car & Driver. The ZR-1 is on the cover. Here's the link:
http://www.caranddriver.com/autoshows/1443...rvette-zr1.html
I owned a 2000 Vette, a rare hardtop version. It had 345HP and that seemed massive 7 years ago. I had it for 3 years and put only 3000 miles on it! I couldn't drive it to work, so it ended up being a "Sunday driver." I later test drove an '02 Z06 with 405HP, and that was a rocket! I can't imagine the power from the latest gen. Z06 or the ZR-1. I am going to wait for the next generation and maybe I'll then jump back into one. They are loads of fun!
http://www.caranddriver.com/autoshows/1443...rvette-zr1.html
I owned a 2000 Vette, a rare hardtop version. It had 345HP and that seemed massive 7 years ago. I had it for 3 years and put only 3000 miles on it! I couldn't drive it to work, so it ended up being a "Sunday driver." I later test drove an '02 Z06 with 405HP, and that was a rocket! I can't imagine the power from the latest gen. Z06 or the ZR-1. I am going to wait for the next generation and maybe I'll then jump back into one. They are loads of fun!
01-04-2008, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by EuroCarFan' post='513777' date='Jan 4 2008, 03:28 PM
Seems to me like this whole debate is comparing apples to oranges whether you're talking about motors or the cars. BMW Motorsport's philosophy has always been about high revving engines whether people like it or not; which is not to say it's good or bad. Why debate about which is better??
And why are we comparing a Vette to a BMW?? They're two different cars with different buying segments. Get both! =)
And why are we comparing a Vette to a BMW?? They're two different cars with different buying segments. Get both! =)