Originally Posted by jagbagri' post='801252' date='Feb 25 2009, 12:49 PM

I always wondered, why do we not have a salesperson/contact from few of the reputed companies, as vendor members to give us the comparative edge and rate their service among us to get some great deals and good service as far the extended warranty is concerned.
This is the first and I thank you '530going850' for spearheading this effort. Looking forward to some good comparative prices with good service.
I'm still under factory warranty till Aug. of this year. So the time is right for me to start shopping and narrowing this down to where I want to get my warranty extended.

Thanks

Originally Posted by 530goinon850' post='808941' date='Mar 6 2009, 01:24 AM

Guys, any experiences you want to share regarding this hook-up?

I'm considering to take this issue up closer and to actually start selling it myself, would you consider it a benefit, if you could simply talk to me directly about the warraties?

Originally Posted by z06bigbird' post='809479' date='Mar 6 2009, 04:00 PM

Specifics on extended warranties
Some extended warr cos have fine print that disallows:

1. items that are worn, but not physically broken.
2. items that the manufact has published a TSB on, such as the following unnamed American car. Most cars have hundreds and hundreds of TSBs, adding more every year.


1. EQUIPMENT:ELECTRICAL:NAVIGATIONAL SYSTEM(GLOBAL POSITIONING SYSTEM)
2. ELECTRICAL SYSTEM: SOFTWARE
3. ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
4. EQUIPMENT:OTHER:OWNERS/SERVICE/OTHER MANUAL
5. EQUIPMENT:ELECTRICAL
6. STEERING
7. POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
8. VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
9. EQUIPMENT
10. ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
11. SUSPENSION
12. ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING
13. SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC
14. STEERING
15. VISIBILITYEFROSTER/DEFOGGER SYSTEM:REAR WINDOW
16. STRUCTURE:BODY
17. ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
18. ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
19. ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
20. SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:FOUNDATION COMPONENTSISC:ROTOR
21. ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
22. ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
23. EQUIPMENT
24. ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:WIRING
25. VISIBILITYEFROSTER/DEFOGGER SYSTEM:WINDSHIELD:CONTROLS/WIRING
26. STRUCTURE
27. EQUIPMENT:ELECTRICAL
28. EQUIPMENT:ELECTRICAL:NAVIGATIONAL SYSTEM(GLOBAL POSITIONING SYSTEM)
29. EQUIPMENT:ELECTRICAL:AIR CONDITIONER
30. POWER TRAIN
31. ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
32. POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
33. EQUIPMENT
34. EQUIPMENT:ELECTRICAL:AIR CONDITIONER
35. EQUIPMENT
36. EQUIPMENT
37. EQUIPMENT:ELECTRICAL:NAVIGATIONAL SYSTEM(GLOBAL POSITIONING SYSTEM)
38. ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
39. EQUIPMENT:ELECTRICAL:RADIO/TAPE DECK/CD ETC.
40. ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
41. ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
42. OTHER
43. ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
44. POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
45. SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:ANTILOCK:ABS WARNING LIGHT
46. POWER TRAIN
47. POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
48. SERVICE BRAKES, AIR
49. SERVICE BRAKES, AIR:ANTILOCK:WHEEL SPEED SENSOR
50. SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:ANTILOCK:ABS WARNING LIGHT
51. ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE

In short, some warr cos will not cover repairs on items related to the above TSBs. WOW!!

Read the fine print prior to purchase of an extended warr. By the way, I have not been burned with/by any extended warr cos. I just enjoy reading the fine print and asking the vendor questions.

Originally Posted by 530goinon850' post='812186' date='Mar 10 2009, 12:21 AM

You know, I've re-read this reply, like, 5 times now and still can't see what productive point transpired from it (aside, of course, from making people doubt my honesty!!! Thanks on that one, pal!)

It is public knowledge that many warranty companies skip out on payments - goes without saying, then, that a potential buyer would read the fine print with extra attention to detail. That being said, you have to consider not only the fine print, but the actual REPUTATION of a warranty provider. The absolute best way to find that out is to actually find out who the "re-insurer" for the warranty provider is (i.e. if its a company that is not well-funded, you can pretty much expect to get screwed). The reason I say this, is because - and I think many would agree - there have been so many cases where the extended warranty companies simply declined payment, regardless of any fine prints, or commitments they were bound to uphold. That is usually done by companies that have insufficient funds - those companies that charge much less for the policy and promise more than the industry average. With extended warranties more than most other services, you actually do get what you pay for, as the better-funded company would calculate it's risk appropriately and would not be able to charge "deep discount" prices, based on their risk. On the other hand, there are "hit-n-run" warranty companies that will sell you a piece of paper worth next to nothing and disappear within several months with your cash and no re-insurer for you to contact in case you need to fix your car.

So while it is an excellent point, that you HAVE to read the "fine print" (otherwise known as "Service Contract") before you give anyone your money, the MORE IMPORTANT thing to do is your research. And THAT is the reason I started this thread to begin with. I've been dealing with my guy for more than 5 years now, during which he has always offered only one warranty company. To my knowledge, he has no disgruntled customers among what now is probably thousands of people who bought these warranties from him. And his business being used luxury vehicles, I'm pretty sure that many electronics have been fixed at the expense of this warranty company. And on a more personal note, I'd rather not have said what I just said - I'd rather wait for others to form their own opinions. So, thanks for the implied negative publicity here! Have fun reading fine prints, but don't forget - "ALWAYS FOLLOW THE MONEY", in other words, similar research to one you'd do on a stock you're thinking of investing in is what's really required here to make the trully good purchase.

Originally Posted by z06bigbird' post='812621' date='Mar 10 2009, 02:24 PM

Dear 530...850,

I did not mean to offend you or imply that you are less than honest. Here are my personal biases and where I am coming from:

1. Over the years, I have gone to a variety of dealers and asked for a copy of the actual contract. Some have told me that they do not have the contract and that all I have to do is "buy the service contract, and the company will send me the actual contract." That is not the way I work. Some dealers will also tell you that if you do not like the extended warr, they company will refund my money. Some warr cos will not send the money back to the customer; they will send the $$ back to the dealer. And if the dealer shuts down, like Bill Heard, Lewis Ford, etc, I am not sure that I will ever see my $$--espec if the dealership goes into bankruptcy.

>>Non-disclosure of contracts prior to purchase of ext. warr. seems to be a fairly common practice, actually. It is obvious that this practice is necessitated by the fact that the sales pitch and the actual contract differ in terms fundamentally - I see no other rational reason for the contract to not be available for examination prior to purchase.

2. As part of my regular employment routine, I purchase tons of contracts, e.g., computer networking, $300,000 software maint agreements, housekeeping, building leases, technology equipment leases, etc. Millions and millions of $$ in service contracts. If I do not read these contracts, identify potential problems areas, or modify the contracts, then I am out on the street.

3. I am also big on having an attorney read the contracts after I do. Then we compare notes. Many many times, the attorney identifies problem areas that I did not spot. I then think of the typical buyer of a contract whose experience with contracts is absolutely nil when compared to the company who has proposed the contract. I typically recommend that the buyer of the contract visit any automotive service manager and ask for advice on the service contract. These guys deal with warr contracts on a daily basis.

>>To most people today it is a common practice to involve a legal professional on some level. Too few people realize that the purchase of an ext. warr. is actually a good place for that, thinking that what is being offered to them is a "standard contract", often mislead by the salesmen, who in turn are driven by commissions and could not care any less whether their customers get duped or get a quality product. Phylosophically and historically, I tend to blame this state of affairs on over-regulation of business, but that does not help someone who needs to buy the warranty today. What can help is employing a legal service, or simply asking someone you know in the legal profession to come with you to read the contract before you commit.

4. Since the definition of a contract is along the lines of two parties agreeing to a business arrangement, I am also big on changing some line items in the contract. When the other party says that his company will not allow that, I remind them of the definition. We either party cannot change a line item, then that document is not a contract. I then define it as something like an edict. (BTW, I am not sure I would have any success in changing a warr contract because I have not tried, and the vendor will likely tell me to take a hike.)

>>Absolutely agreed. However, in my experience, service "contracts" are not subject to change by the customer. And warranty company is most likely to not honor any changes you may add at the time of signing, arguing that the sales agent was not employed by them and therefore had no power to approve changes to the service contract. The answer to this issue is actually reading many different contracts, and as I said before - and cannot overstate the importance of making sure that you're dealing with a reputable company.

5. Getting back to the fine print: I was recently astounded when several BMW managers told me that BMW had no printed contract for the CPO warranty. They handed me a sheet saying that "electrical" is covered under the CPO. It was interesting for me to find out that the IDrive is not covered under the CPO warr. There is a section for exclusions, part of it says: "accessories: radio/cd (or cassette) player, telephone, navigation system, CD changer, or any components of those systems; non-original equipment parts, components or accessories." A normal person would likely think that the IDrive is covered since it is electrical. Not so.

>>I do believe there is a coverage explanation sheet, or something like that - I believe that is what you are referring to. But it is indeed a standard practice for manufacturers to not cover items like iDrive and Navigtions etc. - at least when it comes to extended warranties (see Daimler-Benz or Audi, to name a couple). That is one very good reason to go for a third party warranty, some of which actually do cover these items.

One warr contract stated that: when the aggregate cost of the repairs exceeds the cost of the car, they will not pay. It does not say how they define "cost of car." (wholesale, retail, etc.) It does not say when anyone would identify the actual cost of the car--at time time of purchase of the warranty, at the time of purchase of the car, or at the time of the repair. What happens when the warr co authorizes a major repair. In the middle of the repair, the garage identifies that the vehicle needs pistons or a new crankshaft, etc. The warr company then instructs the garage that the co can pay for the tear down of the car and the currently identified and expected labor and parts, but since the teardown later identified "hidden" failures inside the engine, the warr company has reached its maximum in payments. What happens to the customer and his/her exposure to these expenses and what happens to the garage and reimbursement for labor and parts that are not returnable to its supplier?.

Other fine print talks about pre-existing conditions. Lets suppose a customer purchases what looks like a well-maintained used vehicle. A year after the warr comes into play, the owner has serious engine or tranny problems. Garage and warr co agree that an internal part has failed (physically broken). e.g., burnt piston. Upon teardown, garage mechanic reports that he feels this piston has been failing for a couple of years, based on the size of the hole in the piston. Is that a pre-existing condition? Does warr co politely refuse to pay?

>>This item has to be two-sided "buyer beware" situation, i.e. if the warranty company is reputable, they know that they have to estimate their risk, when commiting to you. Hence, your car will most likely have to undergo a detailed check-up by one of their mechanics before the coverage takes effect. If no "pre-existing" conditions are identified at the time of this inspection, then NO failures can be blamed on ANY pre-existing conditions. At least, this seems to be the rational way to see this - and the way I ALWAYS thought it to be.

Some warrs will not pay for tear downs unless the garage can demonstrate physical failures. Engine makes loud noises, or tranny makes strange sounds and shifts incorrectly. Garage tears down an engine or tranny, and discovers no broken parts, just worn parts. Who pays?

Again, this is no reflection on you. Some auto parts stores advertise lifetime warranties. What they don't tell you is that they will replace the part once in a lifetime. Also, they do not identify whose or what lifetime. Your lifetime, car's lifetime, or part's lifetime.

Again, you are just trying to get a job done. I re-apologize and do/did not intend for my ramblings to reflect on you. I will try to keep my mouth shut from now on, except for my silly smart alek remarks in other situations.

>>I'm not simply trying to get a job done. Perhaps, I am a bit of an idealist, but I believe there is a way to get the job done and to have happy customers. More so, I believe that the ONLY way to continue getting the job done is to keep customers happy. And in case that is not enough encouragement, let me bluntly state: I welcome all rational discssions and disagreements. Please, do not hold back!!!

Sorry for any inconvenience.

Originally Posted by 530goinon850' post='797265' date='Feb 19 2009, 09:13 PM

I have a hook-up for extended warranties.

From what I see so far, the prices are much lower than the "stealer" and the company is re-insured by someone big (I think it is Chubb Insurance or something like that - the re-insurer).

If anyone's interested, PM me, I'll hook you up with the sales guy directly.

Originally Posted by z06bigbird' post='814408' date='Mar 12 2009, 12:23 AM

850,

Check out this warranty name: Mastertech from American Financial Warranty Corporation. A very reputable GM dealer told me about it today. He said that his dealerships are dropping GMPP and going with this. Fascinating.

I briefly read the contract, and I have some questions about definitions, but nothing has jumped out at me yet. He thinks the Idrive is covered, and he is going to check on this for me.

This warr co does have a website.

Good luck. I will beat you up later. LOL

Originally Posted by 530goinon850' post='814543' date='Mar 12 2009, 05:35 AM

hahaa you must have a bat, or an army


as per Mastertech, I've looked through their web site briefly - seems like a reputable company. I've heard that name before.

The only thing that stood out to me in a wrong way so far (I haven't really had the chance to look through it thoroughly) is their requirement that you service your car "at any authorized repair facility" - to me, that means that they want you to take the car only to a place that they tell you. Obvious question is, since we drive not GM cars, but a much more complicated and precise-engineered machines from Bavaria, what'll happen if their "authorized" mechanic does not perform to my satisfaction? My guess is, they'll simply say "either you fix it at our guy's place, or we revoke your coverage". I'm sure you can see how this can be disadvantageous to a BMW owner.

The warranty that my guy offers will pay for repairs at ANY place, as long as it is a licensed shop or dealership (obviously, they won't pay your uncle $145/hr for oil changes ) - in that, I see my guy's plans as better suited for someone like me.


Getting back to Mastertech, I'd definitely look through customer reviews to see how good they are at paying. And I'd also check out who is the company that re-insures them (I couldn't find any info on that on their site - did I miss it?).

Originally Posted by z06bigbird' post='815372' date='Mar 12 2009, 10:33 PM

American Financial Warranty Company is the backer. On second page or so with a yahoo search. They are in the Woodlands, Tx--used to be one of the richest parts of Houston, Tx.

Good point on their contract. I do have several other questions for them. Next week, I hope to meet with the F I guy at the GM dealership. He knows that I am not in the market for a warr right now, but he also knows that I have a BMW with very low miles on it. I hope to call the warr company tomorrow or Monday.

Today, I got a brochure on the Toyota Extra Care Warr. Have not read it yet, but I used their product/service about 20 years ago. By the way, Toyota would not work on a BMW; the warr company would instruct you to go to a BMW dealership. I need to ask if Mastertech tells me the same.