BMW reply to Swedish test.
11-01-2005, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by UUronL' date='Nov 1 2005, 09:42 PM
[quote name='ipp' date='Nov 1 2005, 08:03 PM'][quote name='UUronL' date='Nov 2 2005, 01:46 AM']I don't swallow everything without some thought either.? I guess you're right... perhaps I've placed too much credence on the BMW video?? Or perhaps I've assigned too much weight to the vivid imagery of the original tester's refusal to drive the course with BMW present.? Oh wait, no - it was the fact that there's a better test that's ISO certified, the VDA test - and the number of times the 5 has successfully passed it in the hands of automotive journalists.?
It looks to me as if the driver in the original video swerves and then maintains a straight path a bit longer before turning in than the BMW driver in the BMW video.? The course was navigated differently.? I think this variation is what caused the car to swerve.? As to the assertion that the VDA test expunges non-uniformities such as these, I'll have to defer.? Certainly the ISO backing lends credence to the claims that VDA is a superior test.
Forgive me, but I can't help but suspect you are resistant to swallowing more than just the BMW data...? a bit of nationalistic pride perhaps??
I've readily admitted my bias in other threads on this matter.? It's against the media.? American media has had at least two very high-profile blunders connected to auto safety testing.? We're no better, probably worse so please don't see this as hypocrisy.
It looks to me as if the driver in the original video swerves and then maintains a straight path a bit longer before turning in than the BMW driver in the BMW video.? The course was navigated differently.? I think this variation is what caused the car to swerve.? As to the assertion that the VDA test expunges non-uniformities such as these, I'll have to defer.? Certainly the ISO backing lends credence to the claims that VDA is a superior test.
Forgive me, but I can't help but suspect you are resistant to swallowing more than just the BMW data...? a bit of nationalistic pride perhaps??
I've readily admitted my bias in other threads on this matter.? It's against the media.? American media has had at least two very high-profile blunders connected to auto safety testing.? We're no better, probably worse so please don't see this as hypocrisy.
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[/quote]Then we agree on those two points at least. My reason for siding with BMW isn't the video, I had already mulled over the plausibility of the various possible explanations before seeing the video or the response. The video certainly is beneficial, but even without that I just think the argument and circumstances favor BMW.
I think BMW's behavior is perfectly defensible. In my world, if we find a problem in the function of a piece of gear from a vendor - whether in a test lab or in the field, the vendor is contacted and they try to replicate the condition. I would imagine that BMW was keenly interested in determining if the car was built to spec and operating properly, so it was sent back and tested. Once its state was determined, the next step would have been to try to replicate the conditions and test to see if the problem would reappear. I see the invitation that was extended to the journalists as an act of openness, probably something that wasn't required. I'm sure some will see such fervor and thoroughness on BMW's part as defensive and possibly suspicious behavior, but I think it is in line with scientific practices.
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[/quote]I whole Heartly concur, I expect no less from a company I love. If someone says something about any one of their cars and they just brush it off like some have suggested I would be very disturbed by that! I guess maybe it's an American mentality thing since we are so prone to suing everybody's ass of
Honestly the journalist looked like a prick when he was asked to drive and refused to, I mean almost a total act of cowardice hate to see that quality in a man! When you say something you best have the balls to back it up when the person you spoke about is around!
11-01-2005, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Simple1' date='Nov 2 2005, 07:53 AM
[quote name='UUronL' date='Nov 1 2005, 09:42 PM'][quote name='ipp' date='Nov 1 2005, 08:03 PM'][quote name='UUronL' date='Nov 2 2005, 01:46 AM']I don't swallow everything without some thought either.? I guess you're right... perhaps I've placed too much credence on the BMW video?? Or perhaps I've assigned too much weight to the vivid imagery of the original tester's refusal to drive the course with BMW present.? Oh wait, no - it was the fact that there's a better test that's ISO certified, the VDA test - and the number of times the 5 has successfully passed it in the hands of automotive journalists.?
It looks to me as if the driver in the original video swerves and then maintains a straight path a bit longer before turning in than the BMW driver in the BMW video.? The course was navigated differently.? I think this variation is what caused the car to swerve.? As to the assertion that the VDA test expunges non-uniformities such as these, I'll have to defer.? Certainly the ISO backing lends credence to the claims that VDA is a superior test.
Forgive me, but I can't help but suspect you are resistant to swallowing more than just the BMW data...? a bit of nationalistic pride perhaps??
I've readily admitted my bias in other threads on this matter.? It's against the media.? American media has had at least two very high-profile blunders connected to auto safety testing.? We're no better, probably worse so please don't see this as hypocrisy.
It looks to me as if the driver in the original video swerves and then maintains a straight path a bit longer before turning in than the BMW driver in the BMW video.? The course was navigated differently.? I think this variation is what caused the car to swerve.? As to the assertion that the VDA test expunges non-uniformities such as these, I'll have to defer.? Certainly the ISO backing lends credence to the claims that VDA is a superior test.
Forgive me, but I can't help but suspect you are resistant to swallowing more than just the BMW data...? a bit of nationalistic pride perhaps??
I've readily admitted my bias in other threads on this matter.? It's against the media.? American media has had at least two very high-profile blunders connected to auto safety testing.? We're no better, probably worse so please don't see this as hypocrisy.
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[/quote]Then we agree on those two points at least. My reason for siding with BMW isn't the video, I had already mulled over the plausibility of the various possible explanations before seeing the video or the response. The video certainly is beneficial, but even without that I just think the argument and circumstances favor BMW.
I think BMW's behavior is perfectly defensible. In my world, if we find a problem in the function of a piece of gear from a vendor - whether in a test lab or in the field, the vendor is contacted and they try to replicate the condition. I would imagine that BMW was keenly interested in determining if the car was built to spec and operating properly, so it was sent back and tested. Once its state was determined, the next step would have been to try to replicate the conditions and test to see if the problem would reappear. I see the invitation that was extended to the journalists as an act of openness, probably something that wasn't required. I'm sure some will see such fervor and thoroughness on BMW's part as defensive and possibly suspicious behavior, but I think it is in line with scientific practices.
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[/quote]I whole Heartly concur, I expect no less from a company I love. If someone says something about any one of their cars and they just brush it off like some have suggested I would be very disturbed by that! I guess maybe it's an American mentality thing since we are so prone to suing everybody's ass of
Honestly the journalist looked like a prick when he was asked to drive and refused to, I mean almost a total act of cowardice hate to see that quality in a man! When you say something you best have the balls to back it up when the person you spoke about is around!
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[/quote]Apparently they were forbidden by their Chief editor to drive the car at BMW's test facilities. Don't know why though.
The only thing that disturbs me is the fact that Teknikens Varld drives every other test car in the same way and the A6, E-Class and so on all goes quicker and without the drifting...
/R
11-02-2005, 02:36 AM
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Press release from BMW today: " ... and the DSC was switched off during the video.... ".
Can you believe this., from a so called serious car mag????????????????????
:thumbsdown:
Can you believe this., from a so called serious car mag????????????????????
:thumbsdown:
11-02-2005, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by cidair' date='Nov 2 2005, 07:36 PM
Press release from BMW today:? " ... and the DSC was switched off during the video.... ".
Can you believe this., from a so called serious car mag????????????????????? :thumbsdown:
Can you believe this., from a so called serious car mag????????????????????
? :thumbsdown:[snapback]192358[/snapback]
11-02-2005, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Robbo' date='Nov 2 2005, 07:41 AM
Apparently they were forbidden by their Chief editor to drive the car at BMW's test facilities. Don't know why though.
The only thing that disturbs me is the fact that Teknikens Varld drives every other test car in the same way and the A6, E-Class and so on all goes quicker and without the drifting...
The only thing that disturbs me is the fact that Teknikens Varld drives every other test car in the same way and the A6, E-Class and so on all goes quicker and without the drifting...
i.e.
The same BMW 523i formerly tested by Teknikens V?rld passed the moose test at 72,73 km/h, which is a top performance in it?s class.
11-03-2005, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by colejl' date='Nov 2 2005, 03:27 PM
[quote name='Robbo' date='Nov 2 2005, 07:41 AM']Apparently they were forbidden by their Chief editor to drive the car at BMW's test facilities. Don't know why though.
The only thing that disturbs me is the fact that Teknikens Varld drives every other test car in the same way and the A6, E-Class and so on all goes quicker and without the drifting...
The only thing that disturbs me is the fact that Teknikens Varld drives every other test car in the same way and the A6, E-Class and so on all goes quicker and without the drifting...
i.e.
The same BMW 523i formerly tested by Teknikens V?rld passed the moose test at 72,73 km/h, which is a top performance in it?s class.
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[/quote]I'm referring to the magazine's tests. They claim that the E60 does it 68km/h. The competition is quicker.
But here we go again:
mms://qstream-wm.qbrick.com/04755/BMW/0523_bmw_high.wmv
(Copy / paste in your browser)
They made some new tests after the one at BMW. The silver 530 is equipped with winter tires and the test driver says that it works a bit better with the softer tires.
The Touring is the worst one. What you see in the test run is first with DSC enabled and fully loaded, second without DSC (and loaded) and thirdly with DSC and just the driver.
I wonder what BMW's reply will be...
/R
11-04-2005, 06:40 AM
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Well, I must say that I am disappointed in Teknikens V?rld.
This proves that they see the world thru blue and yellow eyeglasses.
This whole matter stinks s**t ... or I mean Volvo. :thumbsdown:
This proves that they see the world thru blue and yellow eyeglasses.
This whole matter stinks s**t ... or I mean Volvo. :thumbsdown:
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