pjinca

Look, if you read this thread entirely, you would know my position has nothing to do with whether they are illegal or not. If you cannot see that a lot more Europeans and Asians come here legally simply because THERE'S A FRIGGIN OCEAN BETWEEN US!!!! Also, if you can't see that the law will lead to racial profiling you are blinded by your supposed righteousness. Are you going to be going to Arizona with proof of citizenship on you at all times? Of course not, because you have no need, you're white and they will not bother you - you know it and I know it.

BTW, did you happen to actually READ the article you referenced?


More than two-thirds of the estimated 340,000 agriculture workers in California are noncitizens, most of whom are believed to be illegal immigrants, according to a 1998 study on farmworkers prepared for the state Legislature.
Local farmers say migrant farmworkers are critical to their businesses, and without them they would have to close their farms or move their operations overseas.


Also we know all the BEST scientific accurate reports are based on assumptions:

The study assumes that there are about 1 million children of illegal immigrant parents in California, or about 15 percent of the state's K-12 school enrolled population. The estimate is based on a 1994 study by the Urban Institute that concluded there were 307,000 illegal immigrant children enrolled in the state's public schools.
Martin also added an estimate of 597,000 U.S.-born children whose parents are illegal immigrants arriving at a total of 1,022,000 children. Multiplying the number of children by the estimated $7,577 the state spends on average per pupil, the study arrived at the $7.7 billion figure.

So your retort is based on numbers some guy pulled out of his ass? Let's be real

Where exactly did you manage to get the "figure" of $2.7 billion for Arizona? The article doesn't mention Arizona nor it's costs in any line. Interesting, another assumption?

Rizbel

I know I can drive and have insurance, but when a law officer ask for proof I'll simply show him the required papers.
Just my 2 cents .

LBimmer

1). They are not numbers pulled out of someone's ass. They were from a study by a large organization. If anything they are ESTIMATES not ASSUMPTIONS. Google "how much do illegal immigrants cost taxpayers annually" and have fun. There are lots of numbers for you. Go to FAIR-the Foundation for American Immigration Reform and check out their numbers..They did the exact same study as the Urban Institute, however there's is newer I believe 2004/2005. Same everywhere you go. These are not ASSUMPTIONS. These are FACTS. Everyone with a brain knows illegal immigration is out of control, if you don't believe that, than your simply ignorant. I know it's hard for liberals to comprehend the idea of a "FACT", but they do exist.

2). There are good cops, and there are bad cops. The cops that racially profile are already doing it. Am I saying it's right? NO. But this will change nothing. If I run through a red light, they are going to pull me over. And you know what they're gonna ask for? License, registration and insurance no matter what freakin color your skin is. Most cops are so afraid that they are going to get sued or some shit for "discrimination", they make sure not to pull something stupid. Some cities even require that police pull over a certain amount of white people too, all because of Political Correctness bullshit. That is because anyone who is not White, knows that they can just say "its because I'm Black" (0r Hispanic), and actually have a case.

My license has my social security number on it so they can run that and SEE THAT I AM LEGAL. He will then proceed to either write me a ticket or give me a warning and away I go. And I really hate to be so "politically incorrect", but you know what? Of course they're gonna be looking for Mexicans...how many white people immigrate from Mexico? I'd be willing to bet everything that 95% of illegal immigrants in Arizona are not from Europe or Asia. They are from Mexico and are Mexicans. You know it and I know it.

3). Just because some people have to cross an ocean and apply for citizenship to get past our border, and some can simply run their asses across it, doesn't make it OK for those who choose to run across it. In fact, shouldn't it be easier for Mexican's to immigrate legally since they're so close? hmmm...maybe it's because they don't want to wait like everyone else because they're close. Let's say I stand in line at an amusement park for 3 hours to ride a rollercoaster, and someone gets in front of me right before the ride. That person then says, "I live in the neighborhood next to the park, and you're from out of state, so I can cut you in line", its ok right? Ummm, no I was in line before you, so you get your ass to the back of the line like everyone else.


4). I do have proof of citizenship at all times...its called a social security number. A legitimate one I mean.

5). Yes I did read the article. Of course they don't want migrant workers to leave their farms. Do you know why? Because they don't pay them shit to work and if they have to leave, they are going to have to pay legal citizens more, or outsource to freakin China to get their cheap labor elsewhere. This is bullcrap and I think they should pay a huge tax if they outsource. They just know Mexican's will work for less, so of course they don't want them leaving! That's called greed my friend. It has nothing to do with helping immigrants.

6). http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/17/immigration-costs-rising-rapidlty-new-study-says//...There's where I got the 2.7 billion from...I already know what you're going to say about Fox News. But that's funny because Fox news has triple the ratings of MSNBC or CNN. Maybe thats because most people know where the truth is, or more people would be watching MSNBC/CNN's slime.

swajames

1) FAIR is a conservative organization with an agenda and its data is prepared and collated to support that agenda. Whether any of these numbers - on any side of the debate - rise the level of "facts" is highly doubtful and in itself debatable, but I am clear in my mind that what you present as "fact" in your posts are nothing more and and nothing less than opinion.

2) It is my opinion that your likelihood of being stopped and asked for papers, irrespective of the reasons or otherwise, is markedly higher if you are non-Caucasian.

3) Your logic here escapes me.

4) Possession of a social security number isn't proof of citizenship. It is, however, reasonable proof of legitimacy as the numbers are only issued to legal US residents, including those on visas which authorize work.

5) In an earlier post I made the point that the problem with the Arizona laws is that they are not demonstrably targeting those who employ illegal immigrants. Rounding up the easy target (the unrepresented immigrant) makes for better TV and for more political capital but this is addressing the symptom and not the cause. Stronger enforcement action on those who employ and exploit immigrant workers is needed to address the cause.

6) I'm not going to get into the debate on Fox News other than to observe that popularity is never and has never been a measure of quality, honesty and integrity. Rather such things are more of an unfortunate indictment in that way too many people are incapable of critical and independent thought.

pjinca

OK let's go point by point:
1) When the article itself as well as the sites you cited also clearly state the numbers are assumptions, then yes, they are pulled from the air and cannot be considered accurate. Also, this term "Liberal" you really need to read the rest of my posts here, I am far from "liberal" but if that is the term that separates me from right wing whackos like you - I'm good. I am far from the far left OR the far right in my views, but I am not intimidated when some goober hisses "liberal" at me, oh well


2) Your license has your SSN on it? Seems a stupid way to do things for any state considering the preponderance of identity theft in today's world. Besides, if you think it's hard to get an SSN there are many places in any major city to obtain one that will pass scrutiny, so you having your SSN on your license doesn't impress me. I still keep my military ID in my wallet, should a cop be impressed with that? Not really, I've been out of the Air Force for 15 years. I know there are bad cops and good cops, my best friend growing up is a Sheriff's Deputy in Colorado - and guess what, he's Mexican and a highly decorated officer to boot. I know amazing isn't it?

3) The main reasons (in case you didn't know or are to obtuse to realize it) that Mexicans and many other Central Americans come here across the border instead of coming through the proper channels are 2 - convenience, it is easier and quotas, the US govt has established quotas where immigrants from certain countries will find it easier to immigrate because there are fewer from that country willing to come here and that the relationship between the US and that country is different. And of course those considered "refugees" are pushed to the front of the line - i.e. Afghans, Pakistanis, and Iraquis currently. I have NOT said anywhere in this thread that I agree with illegal immigration, get that through you chest thumping, knuckle dragging skull. My beef with the law is that I can be arrested if I cannot produce enough paperwork for an officer in AZ.
Something someone like you has no worries about, if the law was targeted at Swedes you may have the same beef as I do, right?

4) You think I don't have a legit SSN? I was also born here (NYU Medical Center, NYC thanks).

5) As I have said previously, the work is hard, Americans are lazy. Take the jobs away from those willing to work hard and the AFL-CIO will jump in and unionize them in seconds and a salad will cost you $90 because some idiot who refused to graduate 6th grade feels he's more important than you are to the country (Hmm, I hate unions, that doesn't sound very "liberal" does it?)

6) Yep, Fox News has all the accurate information. Which is why Jon Stewart can so easily call them on their bullshit all the time. I bet you think the only magazine worth reading is the Christian Science Monitor too, that's where the "real" journalism is right?

PraiseTheLowered

this thread sucks

mexicans make tacos

i like tacos

tacos equal illegal/ delicious

therefore

mexicans = illegal/ delicious

there, see i made a proof, its math.

Case closed

pjinca

So you're saying Mexicans are delicious?

PraiseTheLowered

their women are lol

every tortilla chick ive been with has been one hell of a good time, except when it came to the "can i haz gween card?" talk. Then i have to reiterate that "You knew what this was"

C's Bimmer

I get racially profiled at my local car wash. People mistake me for one of the guys that should be washing their cars. It's hilarious. Funny part is, I'm a Charmenian, not a Chexican. LOL! Hahahahahaha!

pjinca

LOL you know what C? Since my wife's parents are Mexican (legal) and my parents are from Chile (you guessed it - legal) we call our kids Chexmix'ed