Be ready for over $6 / gallon.
05-30-2008, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by kscarrol' post='588777' date='May 26 2008, 08:15 PM
A question which should have been asked a long time ago in this country. Don't know if we'll get to $6/gallon, but it is going up from here. Though it's not purely a horespower question. There was an awful story on our local news last night with the reporter asking folks at a local gas station about how gas prices were impacting travel plans. Literally all seven people interviewed were standing in front of their huge pick up or suburban. Not even a small SUV, monsters. A couple said the government was not doing enough to regulate the price of gas! We in America do not have a God given right to cheap gasoline. If you need to move a lot of people, get a Honda minivan. The gas mileage is so much better than a full-size Ford or Chevy SUV.
Sorry for the rant but we as Americans complain about gasoline prices while we preach free market economics to the world. This is free market economic at work. China, India and the rest of developing world are growing demand for oil so fast it has overwhelmed the ability of oil companies or national oil companies to keep up. Maybe we as a country need to curb our demand oil...
Sorry for the rant but we as Americans complain about gasoline prices while we preach free market economics to the world. This is free market economic at work. China, India and the rest of developing world are growing demand for oil so fast it has overwhelmed the ability of oil companies or national oil companies to keep up. Maybe we as a country need to curb our demand oil...
We in the UK have been getting hammered at the pumps for quite some time by the government and oil companys
The government do it in the name of "saving the environment" but in reality the tax they cream from the motorist goes towards proping up other areas of our poorly governed economy!!!!
I'm afraid your $6 per gallon is on the way, but spare a thought for us paying over ?5.00 per gallon (approx $10) for DIESEL now!!!!
Be afraid.......be very afraid!
05-30-2008, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Lancaster' post='589973' date='May 28 2008, 10:56 AM
I noticed that one or two posters are saying that the US will implode if gas prices continue to rise.
There isn't really any need to guess as the prices in Europe have gone way, way past US levels and we aren't yet seeing anarchy in the UK.
US citizens are generally quite resourceful when push comes to shove. Belts will have to be tightened.
I don't agree that Europe's "great" public transport system makes a big difference. Most people still drive to work and people that drive to work will have similar commute times to US friends. The UK public transport system is complete and utter pants. Travelling in NY for example is way better then travelling in London.
This may be controversial, but if you look at the posts in this forum you will see a lot of Europeans having to run 2.0d E60s but paying just as much for them as a US punter pays for a loaded high capacity petrol version. That will probably not continue long into the future. At least the US will benefit from the improving BMW diesel technology by the time it arrives.
There are a lot of people in the UK who use large 4x4 cars to ferry the kids a few miles to school but they are increasingly being seen as a bit naff (unstylish, clich?d, or outmoded). I think there are even more gas guzzlers in the US but the signs are already there that this is changing as Honda and Toyota have grown at the expense of local producers who relied on SUVs for sales.
Ultimately, you will follow the European trend of buying smaller more fuel efficient cars, with a greater proportion of diesel cars being sold. I don't think that necessarily means hybrid cars as they seem to being exposed for:
Use of scarce and expensive resources during manufacturing.
Real life fuel consumption nowhere near claimed figures.
I have followed my colleague down the M6 motorway for 100 miles in my 520d and achieved over 50mpg (Imperial not US) to his 45mpg in a Prius.
I dont know how Toyota get away with these claims.
BTW, in the graph below, you can say that 1 pence equals 2 cents.
Also 3.78 litres equals 1 US gallon.
So the current petrol price (114p per litre) = $8.62 per US Gallon...
There isn't really any need to guess as the prices in Europe have gone way, way past US levels and we aren't yet seeing anarchy in the UK.
US citizens are generally quite resourceful when push comes to shove. Belts will have to be tightened.
I don't agree that Europe's "great" public transport system makes a big difference. Most people still drive to work and people that drive to work will have similar commute times to US friends. The UK public transport system is complete and utter pants. Travelling in NY for example is way better then travelling in London.
This may be controversial, but if you look at the posts in this forum you will see a lot of Europeans having to run 2.0d E60s but paying just as much for them as a US punter pays for a loaded high capacity petrol version. That will probably not continue long into the future. At least the US will benefit from the improving BMW diesel technology by the time it arrives.
There are a lot of people in the UK who use large 4x4 cars to ferry the kids a few miles to school but they are increasingly being seen as a bit naff (unstylish, clich?d, or outmoded). I think there are even more gas guzzlers in the US but the signs are already there that this is changing as Honda and Toyota have grown at the expense of local producers who relied on SUVs for sales.
Ultimately, you will follow the European trend of buying smaller more fuel efficient cars, with a greater proportion of diesel cars being sold. I don't think that necessarily means hybrid cars as they seem to being exposed for:
Use of scarce and expensive resources during manufacturing.
Real life fuel consumption nowhere near claimed figures.
I have followed my colleague down the M6 motorway for 100 miles in my 520d and achieved over 50mpg (Imperial not US) to his 45mpg in a Prius.
I dont know how Toyota get away with these claims.
BTW, in the graph below, you can say that 1 pence equals 2 cents.
Also 3.78 litres equals 1 US gallon.
So the current petrol price (114p per litre) = $8.62 per US Gallon...
You make a good point about peoples choice of E60, and yeah most of the UK crowd are running oil burners myself included, but not just from a fuel cost, the company car tax on anything petrol driven in the UK is crap!!!
I was told by the accountants that it had to be derv or nothing!!!!.....luckily BMW has there finger on the pulse and is turning out some impressive diesel cars!
05-30-2008, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Five' post='591721' date='May 30 2008, 11:05 AM
We in the UK have been getting hammered at the pumps for quite some time by the government and oil companys
05-30-2008, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Five' post='591731' date='May 30 2008, 07:16 PM
You make a good point about peoples choice of E60, and yeah most of the UK crowd are running oil burners myself included, but not just from a fuel cost, the company car tax on anything petrol driven in the UK is crap!!!
I was told by the accountants that it had to be derv or nothing!!!!.....luckily BMW has there finger on the pulse and is turning out some impressive diesel cars!
I was told by the accountants that it had to be derv or nothing!!!!.....luckily BMW has there finger on the pulse and is turning out some impressive diesel cars!
05-30-2008, 11:00 AM
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The rising cost of oil is going to have some benefits. As oil continues to rise in price, alternatives which were previously cost prohibitive, become attractive. For example, I know that there are a large number of biomass gasification facilities (super heating organic waste products in the absence of oxygen to gasify the carbon content into a methane type fuel) currently under development, as well as other "trash to gas" technologies. The cost effectiveness of such facilities, often measured on a cost per BTU of end product produced, was not attractive before oil hit about $90 per barrel. With oil now well over $90 and rising, these types of facilities and their) end products (which can be used generally to generate electricity) are now quite cost effective. The added benefit is the reduction of materials which are otherwise sent to landfills. Unlike older technologies which generated steam from burning garbage, the new technologies produce virtually no pollution. The technology is being implemented by many locations where landfills have filled up (such as Caribbean islands), but can be put inplace anywhere there are large sources of bio-based trash.
05-30-2008, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by UUronL' post='591597' date='May 30 2008, 05:27 PM
To contrast the societal differences I have seen - a young lawyer in Italy doesn't make much money. Young US lawyers make tons more money. However, the young lawyers in Italy have all the trappings of wealth - the summer homes they can vacation in, the good clothes, jewelry, apartments, etc... Why? It's a legacy of their family's wealth and position in society. They don't make tons of money, but they don't need to. They already have or have access to the things that the lawyer in the US would be trying to work for. The young Italian lawyer has likely spent the better part of a year living outside of Italy, perhaps in the US... and understands the world. The US lawyer who might not have had a super wealthy family may need to be on the job for a few years before getting the same opportunity to expand his knowledge and perspective.
This is true, a young lawyer doesn't make so much money because the market is taken by the old ones for the major part .
Consider that many lawyers continue to do their job even at 80 years old and more (only japanese are more long-lived than us - but they eat only fresh fish all the life), so if you are 25 .. You have to wait 40-50 yo to make a good amount of gains .
But often, as you correctly said, they have a good family at their shoulders so they can wait to make money (for example: for a young man who starts to work is impossible to buy an apartment because they would need $7-800k at least).
It's a strange country: people officially are not rich* (the metropolitan area of my city -and my region, 10 mln people- is one of the richest areas in the world, but I'm talking about the rest of the country - the South, for example), but they have everything . And not on lease (only 30% of getting into debt - US 130%) .
They complain but they have everything they need (house, car -and in EU cars are expensive compared to USA-, vacation, clothes, entertainment, etc.), but they continue to complain
An example can be the fuel : everyone complains about the price of the fuel, at news etc., but NODOBY wants to leave his car at home, even if the diesel is at $10/gal as the petrol .
*
Especially because they don't declare their gains to don't pay taxes.
05-30-2008, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by robg' post='591760' date='May 30 2008, 10:00 PM
The rising cost of oil is going to have some benefits. As oil continues to rise in price, alternatives which were previously cost prohibitive, become attractive. For example, I know that there are a large number of biomass gasification facilities (super heating organic waste products in the absence of oxygen to gasify the carbon content into a methane type fuel) currently under development, as well as other "trash to gas" technologies. The cost effectiveness of such facilities, often measured on a cost per BTU of end product produced, was not attractive before oil hit about $90 per barrel. With oil now well over $90 and rising, these types of facilities and their) end products (which can be used generally to generate electricity) are now quite cost effective. The added benefit is the reduction of materials which are otherwise sent to landfills. Unlike older technologies which generated steam from burning garbage, the new technologies produce virtually no pollution. The technology is being implemented by many locations where landfills have filled up (such as Caribbean islands), but can be put inplace anywhere there are large sources of bio-based trash.
There is a lot of oil inside Tellus, our small and blue, tender planet,
the new foundings are just more expensive to pump up.
The US problem is the lack of refineries and in some cases (diesel) EU's too.
We have over here a few small refineries that are making fuel of wasted food from restaurants and grocery stores,
but as wind and solar energy, they are not yet commercially lucrative enough - but soon they will be.
Finland is now building a brand-new-tech nuclear plant and soon 1-2 more.
Just chatting....
05-30-2008, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by keith84_uk' post='589047' date='May 27 2008, 12:49 PM
$6 a gallon? 
I am now paying roughly $12 a liter = $48 a gallon in the UK
I am now paying roughly $12 a liter = $48 a gallon in the UK
For all of our American and Canadian Freinds there are 4.56 litres to a UK gallon. And Yes Our Thieving Government do take 70% of the fuel price in taxes but not to invest in our inadequate public transport system or to invest in our crumbling road infrastructure.. I am sure if this money was reinvested back into the road or transport network then joe public wouldnt mind so much...
But as always in This Great Country of ours we sit and moan but do not take action...The brave few lorry firms who take part in the fuel protests are our only real voice and need the support of the British public.. Not just to beep their horns in support but to actually take part with them.. But As I said in The UK that will not Happen .. We will just moan Quietly and shake our heads... and let the Government get away with it.. As Always.
Even got to the stage where I might trade my 525d in and go for a Petrol model instead...
05-31-2008, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by fifthinarow' post='591944' date='May 31 2008, 01:59 AM
Even got to the stage where I might trade my 525d in and go for a Petrol model instead...
Since fuel has been stupid money, i have changed my driving style a little to see exactly how much mpg i can get out of my car. Im not too happy at having to fill my car with fuel at ?76 a time when just below 1/4 on the gauge.
Normally, I get 44mpg or there abouts. Its a journey of 50 miles, about 40% country roads, the rest main roads. There are no hold ups or jams.
I have now been driving using the economy meter as a guide, such that i keep the needle above 50mpg as much as possible and as high as possible. This is done by inching your foot off the throttle a little to get the minimum throttle to maintain the speed and in some cases driving a little slower. Lets say that keeping below the speed limits helps a lot
This isnt the most interesting way to drive, but a journey to woek ive been doing for over 3 years isnt exactly interesting either!
I have got some pretty amazing reults over the last 3 days.
day 1 approx 56mpg
day 2 approx 57mpg
day 3 i got 60.1 mpg
thats amazing for a car weighing 1.6 tonnes.
I doubt you could eek this kind of milage from a petrol.
05-31-2008, 03:31 PM
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This is a very interesting debate, but how many of us are going to purchase a 2.5L or below diesel or a less than 2.0L hybrid in the near future? I'm thinking about it, but I'm not willing to trade my 545 for anything. We have a Toyota Seqouia that we drive very little when we need to take the whole family on longer trips or take a big group of kids around town (about 6k miles per year.) I have a 545i, which isn't going anywhere. So, I'm going to replace our Acura TL, which gets 22MPG with a small turbo diesel or hybrid in the next six months. Not sure yet if I'll go for the Jetta TDI, the upcoming Acura TSX diesel, a Prius or a Honda Civic hybrid.