rik zeppelin

+1

Rock on AWG!

We need a headbanger smiley!

craigm1841

swajames

That wasn't actually the point, AWG... We're not the ones who are uninsured - I'm sure all of us here are doing just fine and we are either covered or are comfortable with whatever provisions we have or haven't made. The point was that others aren't as fortunate as us or quite simply don't have our ability to take full responsibility. Some families have a choice between paying the rent and eating or having health insurance. I'm pretty sure that very few of us here have to deal with that particular reality. We have no real idea what it must be like.

The relevance of our 50K to 100K cars was one of relativity, not one of telling people how to spend their money. It was (rather obviously) reinforcing the point that very few of us here are probably having to make the kind of no-win choices that some others are having to make.

craigm1841

And we end up back at "should we have to suffer for the greater 'good'"?

I for one dont think so. Not one bit.

and this is pretty much where the argment hangs in my opinion. we'll never agree on this, however, I have once again enjoyed hearing the other sides views, as much as i think your ideas are poop. JK

craigm1841

one last thing... for all of the liberals that bitched about privacy under the bush administration, wait until a board of beaurocrats in DC is reviewing your medical records.

if you are concerned about your medical privacy from the government... better rethink your veiwpoint.

Alpine White Girl

Others? So what this is coming down to is socialism. EDITED b/c i can

swajames

That is indeed where we differ, Craig. In my own judgment, the hallmarks of a civilized society are that it is one where we do not watch idly as others suffer preventable ills and one where the basic well-being, health and welfare of all of our people is treated as a fair and proportional collective responsibility. In essence, it is one where we feel responsible for others less fortunate than ourselves. I've never been unemployed, never claimed benefits and have always taken full responsibility for my own family's needs, but I also feel an obligation to help those who do not have what I have. I don't condone or support poor choices, but I don't necessarily sit in judgment either. We will always find exceptions that prove the rule, but I don't believe that most people voluntarily or willingly make the poor choices that some here might think they make.

swajames

Not really. I'm a business owner and a capitalist who creates jobs and economic value. I'm pretty sure that by any reasonable definition I work incredibly hard. I'm also someone who already pays a much higher than average amount of tax. I'd just rather see some of those tax dollars devoted to something that I passionately believe we, as a civilized society, desperately need.

pjinca

+1000 Here, here!!! I have NEVER been a proponent of welfare, I hate it, and as Craig made clear, so do not choose to work for their piece of the pie and I see no reason for the rest of us to support a normal healthy adult who chooses not to work. That said, to be a great society and a great country, we NEED to take care of the basic needs of the less fortunate. I am not saying support them, I am saying that a working class family shouldn't end up homeless because Daddy needed his appendix removed and had no insurance so now he works to pay that off. We have all been blessed here with the education, opportunity, and ambition to achieve our version of the American Dream (which is why we have a 5er). Not everyone had that choice. My friends father (I have no idea what happened to him) worked pretty much the rest of his life to pay medical bills and give his son a chance at an education, because they had no insurance.

v_therussian

daaaam you people can talk