Obama's Healthcare Plan
07-23-2009, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rik zeppelin' post='950568' date='Jul 22 2009, 02:16 PM
If we want to fix health care we need to eliminate "health insurance".
The idea of "insurance" for medical care is a stupid house of cards.
It works for things like homes and cars. Only a fraction ever need to use the insurance, so the system works.
EVERYONE NEEDS HEALTHCARE, so an insurance scheme will NEVER work.
That's one reason why we are in the mess we are in now.
Obama is not interested in improving health care for anyone, he is only interested in expanding the scope of government control over YOU, what YOU do, and how YOU spend YOUR money.
If you want to know what "health care" will look like under government control you need look no further than your local post office or DMV.
The thought of some jackass government bureaucrat deciding what treatment you receive should send you all screaming to your local congressman's office, but we're told it will be "FREE" and most are stupid enough to believe this..... somehow.
How people can think that this is the correct solution is beyond me, but hey, this fool got elected so I shouldn't be surprised.
The idea of "insurance" for medical care is a stupid house of cards.
It works for things like homes and cars. Only a fraction ever need to use the insurance, so the system works.
EVERYONE NEEDS HEALTHCARE, so an insurance scheme will NEVER work.
That's one reason why we are in the mess we are in now.
Obama is not interested in improving health care for anyone, he is only interested in expanding the scope of government control over YOU, what YOU do, and how YOU spend YOUR money.
If you want to know what "health care" will look like under government control you need look no further than your local post office or DMV.
The thought of some jackass government bureaucrat deciding what treatment you receive should send you all screaming to your local congressman's office, but we're told it will be "FREE" and most are stupid enough to believe this..... somehow.
How people can think that this is the correct solution is beyond me, but hey, this fool got elected so I shouldn't be surprised.
07-23-2009, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by tex_phil' post='950803' date='Jul 22 2009, 05:15 PM
I'm not gonna read all these posts, but haven't you guys learned. Arguing about politics/religion gets you no where.
07-23-2009, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by 415BMW' post='951352' date='Jul 23 2009, 04:09 AM
We would be lucky if healthcare was as efficient as the post office. Who else can continually and reliably transport items all over the country from one coast to another in 3 days for only 42 cents?
unfortunately i think the doctors office could become more like the DMV.
Dane Cook on teleporting:
"In the year 3000, everything will be instant. But the DMV will still take like 9 f**kin' seconds. 9 SECONDS? COME ON!!! I GOTTA BE AT WORK IN 3 SECONDS!!!"
07-23-2009, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by craigm1841' post='951359' date='Jul 23 2009, 01:23 AM
haha.
unfortunately i think the doctors office could become more like the DMV.
Dane Cook on teleporting:
"In the year 3000, everything will be instant. But the DMV will still take like 9 f**kin' seconds. 9 SECONDS? COME ON!!! I GOTTA BE AT WORK IN 3 SECONDS!!!"
unfortunately i think the doctors office could become more like the DMV.
Dane Cook on teleporting:
"In the year 3000, everything will be instant. But the DMV will still take like 9 f**kin' seconds. 9 SECONDS? COME ON!!! I GOTTA BE AT WORK IN 3 SECONDS!!!"
07-23-2009, 04:39 AM
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That said, to be a great society and a great country, we NEED to take care of the basic needs of the less fortunate. I am not saying support them, I am saying that a working class family shouldn't end up homeless because Daddy needed his appendix removed and had no insurance so now he works to pay that off.
I think that some of us "have's" were never a part of, or was close to a "have not".
07-23-2009, 07:01 AM
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My family health care cost breakdown:
I pay: $438.44/mo
My employer also pays: $438.44/mo (as part of my benefits package)
Dental & Vision: $40/mo (and as with most dental plans, covers next to nothing)
That's $5,261.28 gone for me (this goes up dramatically each year) and $5,261.28 that my employer can't pay me,............$10,522.56 paid to an insurance company who can drop me or deny a claim anytime they feel like. I have lived & worked in this country for 22 years and have always paid health premiums and taxes, yet if I fall seriously ill tomorrow all that I have worked forcould will be in jeopardy.
People in this country are programed to rail against taxes, but happily pay fees, premiums, surcharges, co-pays etc etc.........for me they are all the same, money leaving my pocket.
So I think this national conversation aught to be about value, because everyone seem to be an 'expert' on what things cost, but never what they are worth.
So I pose this question to you good folks; What is a high quality health care system that is accessible to all Americans at a reasonable price worth.
I pay: $438.44/mo
My employer also pays: $438.44/mo (as part of my benefits package)
Dental & Vision: $40/mo (and as with most dental plans, covers next to nothing)
That's $5,261.28 gone for me (this goes up dramatically each year) and $5,261.28 that my employer can't pay me,............$10,522.56 paid to an insurance company who can drop me or deny a claim anytime they feel like. I have lived & worked in this country for 22 years and have always paid health premiums and taxes, yet if I fall seriously ill tomorrow all that I have worked for
People in this country are programed to rail against taxes, but happily pay fees, premiums, surcharges, co-pays etc etc.........for me they are all the same, money leaving my pocket.
So I think this national conversation aught to be about value, because everyone seem to be an 'expert' on what things cost, but never what they are worth.
So I pose this question to you good folks; What is a high quality health care system that is accessible to all Americans at a reasonable price worth.
07-23-2009, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by MiamiPhill' post='951529' date='Jul 23 2009, 08:01 AM
My family health care cost breakdown:
I pay: $438.44/mo
My employer also pays: $438.44/mo (as part of my benefits package)
Dental & Vision: $40/mo (and as with most dental plans, covers next to nothing)
That's $5,261.28 gone for me (this goes up dramatically each year) and $5,261.28 that my employer can't pay me,............$10,522.56 paid to an insurance company who can drop me or deny a claim anytime they feel like. I have lived & worked in this country for 22 years and have always paid health premiums and taxes, yet if I fall seriously ill tomorrow all that I have worked forcould will be in jeopardy.
People in this country are programed to rail against taxes, but happily pay fees, premiums, surcharges, co-pays etc etc.........for me they are all the same, money leaving my pocket.
So I think this national conversation aught to be about value, because everyone seem to be an 'expert' on what things cost, but never what they are worth.
So I pose this question to you good folks; What is a high quality health care system that is accessible to all Americans at a reasonable price worth.
I pay: $438.44/mo
My employer also pays: $438.44/mo (as part of my benefits package)
Dental & Vision: $40/mo (and as with most dental plans, covers next to nothing)
That's $5,261.28 gone for me (this goes up dramatically each year) and $5,261.28 that my employer can't pay me,............$10,522.56 paid to an insurance company who can drop me or deny a claim anytime they feel like. I have lived & worked in this country for 22 years and have always paid health premiums and taxes, yet if I fall seriously ill tomorrow all that I have worked for
People in this country are programed to rail against taxes, but happily pay fees, premiums, surcharges, co-pays etc etc.........for me they are all the same, money leaving my pocket.
So I think this national conversation aught to be about value, because everyone seem to be an 'expert' on what things cost, but never what they are worth.
So I pose this question to you good folks; What is a high quality health care system that is accessible to all Americans at a reasonable price worth.
Perfect example Phil +1000 - I also pay around $480/mo to cover myself, my wife and our 2 boys. Now, I am also in the 46% tax bracket, wouldn't it be very worth it for me to go to a 48% tax bracket and not have to pay the $480/mo instead? Very much so. It is easy when you're single to say "I don;t want to have to cover others", however, when you have a family things change. Especially since you start to think about the possibilities should something happen to you or your wife (or significant other).
As I said previously, my parents were both executives, so there wasn't a lot of struggle in my house, but as I detailed: things were different for some of my friends. They didn't have all the things I did. That doesn't mean they didn't deserve it, or their parents didn't earn it. Many of the people who work the hardest are the least taken care of (as swajames has mentioned), we owe it to all people to have the basics needed for the success Craig mentioned.
And Craig, our views are probably closer than you think, just not on this subject. I believe we should have national healthcare and if it means an end to welfare - all the better. I believe all states should be like Texas, the death penalty express lane
- if you take someone's life then you should expect the state to take yours (this should also be expanded to include child molesters and rapists). And I also FIRMLY believe in everyone's right to their own personal religious beliefs - just keep them the hell out of my life and my gov't.
