Obama's Healthcare Plan
07-22-2009, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by theonlychoman' post='950639' date='Jul 22 2009, 03:12 PM
Don't hold back...tell us how you really feel. 
07-22-2009, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by pjinca' post='950633' date='Jul 22 2009, 06:08 PM
Point 1:
The budget was balanced and the deficit was going down when Bush - Lite took over, under his watch it reached historical proportions. Yes, Obama will have to spend even more to get things fixed, but let's not be delusional as to where this started.
Point 2:
"have gotten along just fine without nationalized healthcare" - who has? I have been lucky enough to be both in a job where I can afford the health insurance provided and stayed pretty healthy. The ones we need to take care of are those people who are denied coverage as soon as they actually have a serious illness.
As for Obama being a "jackass" - he is a much better man than Bushie is, and significantly more intelligent. Bush was a moron, a buffoon, an ultra-maroon, a dolt, an imbecile.
The budget was balanced and the deficit was going down when Bush - Lite took over, under his watch it reached historical proportions. Yes, Obama will have to spend even more to get things fixed, but let's not be delusional as to where this started.
Point 2:
"have gotten along just fine without nationalized healthcare" - who has? I have been lucky enough to be both in a job where I can afford the health insurance provided and stayed pretty healthy. The ones we need to take care of are those people who are denied coverage as soon as they actually have a serious illness.
As for Obama being a "jackass" - he is a much better man than Bushie is, and significantly more intelligent. Bush was a moron, a buffoon, an ultra-maroon, a dolt, an imbecile.
the point not discussed and no one seems to be asking is...if this actually went through, who is going to treat the ~50million people that are not insured today? Are we expecting that the current population of doctors in this country could handle an additional 50million people overnight? If only 10% of those get sick in the first year, we'd have to find support for 5million people....how many doctors, nurses, and infrastructure staff wil be required to do this, how long will it take to put in place, and how much do you think that will cost, as it surely isnt in any costs being spoken about by the media, the politicans or the president
there needs to be long term discussions and serious future planning to even make this thing ever work, and the president is relying on clueless, spineless politicians and lobbists to craft the legislation blindly without any ideas on how to do it....
07-22-2009, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by m630' post='950653' date='Jul 22 2009, 03:22 PM
it serves no point to put down someone in order to try to elevate your position. GWB is not in office, so why try to validate a point that does not need to be made, history will judge the former administration.
the point not discussed and no one seems to be asking is...if this actually went through, who is going to treat the ~50million people that are not insured today? Are we expecting that the current population of doctors in this country could handle an additional 50million people overnight? If only 10% of those get sick in the first year, we'd have to find support for 5million people....how many doctors, nurses, and infrastructure staff wil be required to do this, how long will it take to put in place, and how much do you think that will cost, as it surely isnt in any costs being spoken about by the media, the politicans or the president
there needs to be long term discussions and serious future planning to even make this thing ever work, and the president is relying on clueless, spineless politicians and lobbists to craft the legislation blindly without any ideas on how to do it....
the point not discussed and no one seems to be asking is...if this actually went through, who is going to treat the ~50million people that are not insured today? Are we expecting that the current population of doctors in this country could handle an additional 50million people overnight? If only 10% of those get sick in the first year, we'd have to find support for 5million people....how many doctors, nurses, and infrastructure staff wil be required to do this, how long will it take to put in place, and how much do you think that will cost, as it surely isnt in any costs being spoken about by the media, the politicans or the president
there needs to be long term discussions and serious future planning to even make this thing ever work, and the president is relying on clueless, spineless politicians and lobbists to craft the legislation blindly without any ideas on how to do it....
This is also an invalid point, who foots the bill for the uninsured when they get sick now? Um, we do, so the only difference with nationalized medicine is we (including the currently uninsured) pay for it through our taxes.
There are plenty ideas of how to do it, look to our North, look to England, look to Finland (thanks Anzafin), and a lyriad of other prosperous countries with nationalized medicine. The only fear here is the fear of losing profits for the insurers.
Also, we, as a nation, cannot help but blame the former administration. The financial woes we are in are their fault, the lack of reliable infrastructure is their fault (along with the previous adminstrations going back to Reagan). Here we are as a country facing having to spend more money to bring us current with the rest of the world - get everyone healthcare, rebuild infrastructure, improve education all while facing the worst debt in the history of the world and that can't be blamed on Obama.
Is he doing too much? Maybe, but at least he's trying to help as opposed to starting wars so that he can make his cronies at Haliburton richer off Gov't contracts.
07-22-2009, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pjinca' post='950633' date='Jul 22 2009, 05:08 PM
Point 1:
The budget was balanced and the deficit was going down when Bush - Lite took over, under his watch it reached historical proportions. Yes, Obama will have to spend even more to get things fixed, but let's not be delusional as to where this started.
Point 2:
"have gotten along just fine without nationalized healthcare" - who has? I have been lucky enough to be both in a job where I can afford the health insurance provided and stayed pretty healthy. The ones we need to take care of are those people who are denied coverage as soon as they actually have a serious illness.
As for Obama being a "jackass" - he is a much better man than Bushie is, and significantly more intelligent. Bush was a moron, a buffoon, an ultra-maroon, a dolt, an imbecile.
The budget was balanced and the deficit was going down when Bush - Lite took over, under his watch it reached historical proportions. Yes, Obama will have to spend even more to get things fixed, but let's not be delusional as to where this started.
Point 2:
"have gotten along just fine without nationalized healthcare" - who has? I have been lucky enough to be both in a job where I can afford the health insurance provided and stayed pretty healthy. The ones we need to take care of are those people who are denied coverage as soon as they actually have a serious illness.
As for Obama being a "jackass" - he is a much better man than Bushie is, and significantly more intelligent. Bush was a moron, a buffoon, an ultra-maroon, a dolt, an imbecile.
only time will tell on Obama, you clearly believe everything he says. Hopefully for the country he is telling the truth. As far as being delusional, fannie mae and the sub prime lending started with clinton. Dont forget about that...
point 2:
Paying for health insurance is a choice. Some people who dont get it with their jobs choose not to pay for it. They roll the dice and when they need the coverage they were choosing not to pay for they bitch.
Your statement about Obama being a better man. What makes him better? Is it his amazing speech, or his charisma that has you fooled? All of this is opinion. Nothing you say will change my mind and nothing i say will change yours. Its pointless to argue. Only time will tell. We can speculate all we want, but the fact of the matter is nothing WE SAY matters one bit. Once Obama does fail i will be the first one to tell you i told you so. You got tricked by the false promises and the bullshit....i didnt buy into it.
"i'll keep my guns, religion, and MY MONEY.....you can keep your change"
07-22-2009, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pjinca' post='950645' date='Jul 22 2009, 06:14 PM
Calling him stupid is an insult to stupid people, sheep can outwit him!!!
...and the healtcare? remember back in the day, in the military (oh, the memories
), remember those awesome days sitting at the health clinic if you were sick or needed something? remember how awesome it was to get sub-standard service and there was nothing you could do about it because even if you had a choice, all the doctors sucked?maybe your experience with socialized health care (the only kind Americans have experienced) in the military was better then mine because you were a special ops guy and you might have had your own little section at the clinic, but i didnt do special ops on a regular basis. I wasnt a tabbed ranger or a PJ or a seal. I got run of the mill socialized healthcare, military style, and it sucked.
Everyone in America can be as good as they choose to be. It easier for some people, but what is special about our country, the poorest of the poor can still aspire to and ultimately acheive the American Dream if they want to. It is not my responsibility to carry the weak. I worked my ass off every day. Why should my money pay for someone elses healthcare, and why should my healthcare suffer for the masses?
Healthcare IS NOT AN ENTITLEMENT. it is a privelage bestowed upon those who work hard enough to afford it or work for a company good enough to provide it.
07-22-2009, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by pjinca' post='950661' date='Jul 22 2009, 05:35 PM
This is also an invalid point, who foots the bill for the uninsured when they get sick now? Um, we do, so the only difference with nationalized medicine is we (including the currently uninsured) pay for it through our taxes.
There are plenty ideas of how to do it, look to our North, look to England, look to Finland (thanks Anzafin), and a lyriad of other prosperous countries with nationalized medicine. The only fear here is the fear of losing profits for the insurers.
Also, we, as a nation, cannot help but blame the former administration. The financial woes we are in are their fault, the lack of reliable infrastructure is their fault (along with the previous adminstrations going back to Reagan). Here we are as a country facing having to spend more money to bring us current with the rest of the world - get everyone healthcare, rebuild infrastructure, improve education all while facing the worst debt in the history of the world and that can't be blamed on Obama.
Is he doing too much? Maybe, but at least he's trying to help as opposed to starting wars so that he can make his cronies at Haliburton richer off Gov't contracts.
There are plenty ideas of how to do it, look to our North, look to England, look to Finland (thanks Anzafin), and a lyriad of other prosperous countries with nationalized medicine. The only fear here is the fear of losing profits for the insurers.
Also, we, as a nation, cannot help but blame the former administration. The financial woes we are in are their fault, the lack of reliable infrastructure is their fault (along with the previous adminstrations going back to Reagan). Here we are as a country facing having to spend more money to bring us current with the rest of the world - get everyone healthcare, rebuild infrastructure, improve education all while facing the worst debt in the history of the world and that can't be blamed on Obama.
Is he doing too much? Maybe, but at least he's trying to help as opposed to starting wars so that he can make his cronies at Haliburton richer off Gov't contracts.
07-22-2009, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by pjinca' post='950661' date='Jul 22 2009, 03:35 PM
There are plenty ideas of how to do it, look to our North, look to England, look to Finland (thanks Anzafin), and a lyriad of other prosperous countries with nationalized medicine. The only fear here is the fear of losing profits for the insurers.
07-22-2009, 02:50 PM
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quote name='craigm1841' post='950671' date='Jul 22 2009, 05:43 PM']I am suprised to see you taking such shots at Bush. He was far from elequint (spelling), but wasn't a dumb man. I generally think of you as one of the more logical and reasonable members on this board and i tend to respect your opinions regardless of your point of view... not so much in this thread unfortunately.
...and the healtcare? remember back in the day, in the military (oh, the memories ), remember those awesome days sitting at the health clinic if you were sick or needed something? remember how awesome it was to get sub-standard service and there was nothing you could do about it because even if you had a choice, all the doctors sucked?
maybe your experience with socialized health care (the only kind Americans have experienced) in the military was better then mine because you were a special ops guy and you might have had your own little section at the clinic, but i didnt do special ops on a regular basis. I wasnt a tabbed ranger or a PJ or a seal. I got run of the mill socialized healthcare, military style, and it sucked.
Everyone in America can be as good as they choose to be. It easier for some people, but is what is special about our country, the poorest of the poor can still aspire to and ultimately acheive the American Dream if they want to. It is not my responsibility to carry the weak. I worked my ass off every day. Why should my money pay for someone elses healthcare, and why should my healthcare suffer for the masses?
Healthcare IS NOT AN ENTITLEMENT. it is a privelage bestowed upon those who work hard enough to afford it or work for a company good enough to provide it. [/quote
jesus, finally someone who hasnt been tricked.
the grass isnt always greener on the other side....
Socialism doesnt work.....there is no reason i should have to give my money to someone else.[/quote]
...and the healtcare? remember back in the day, in the military (oh, the memories
), remember those awesome days sitting at the health clinic if you were sick or needed something? remember how awesome it was to get sub-standard service and there was nothing you could do about it because even if you had a choice, all the doctors sucked?maybe your experience with socialized health care (the only kind Americans have experienced) in the military was better then mine because you were a special ops guy and you might have had your own little section at the clinic, but i didnt do special ops on a regular basis. I wasnt a tabbed ranger or a PJ or a seal. I got run of the mill socialized healthcare, military style, and it sucked.
Everyone in America can be as good as they choose to be. It easier for some people, but is what is special about our country, the poorest of the poor can still aspire to and ultimately acheive the American Dream if they want to. It is not my responsibility to carry the weak. I worked my ass off every day. Why should my money pay for someone elses healthcare, and why should my healthcare suffer for the masses?
Healthcare IS NOT AN ENTITLEMENT. it is a privelage bestowed upon those who work hard enough to afford it or work for a company good enough to provide it. [/quote
jesus, finally someone who hasnt been tricked.
the grass isnt always greener on the other side....
Socialism doesnt work.....there is no reason i should have to give my money to someone else.[/quote]
07-22-2009, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC' post='950680' date='Jul 22 2009, 05:48 PM
An inefficient government with no one to answer to, scares me a lot more than the ?big bad insurance company?
07-22-2009, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by m630' post='950653' date='Jul 22 2009, 03:22 PM
it serves no point to put down someone in order to try to elevate your position. GWB is not in office, so why try to validate a point that does not need to be made, history will judge the former administration.
the point not discussed and no one seems to be asking is...if this actually went through, who is going to treat the ~50million people that are not insured today? Are we expecting that the current population of doctors in this country could handle an additional 50million people overnight? If only 10% of those get sick in the first year, we'd have to find support for 5million people....how many doctors, nurses, and infrastructure staff wil be required to do this, how long will it take to put in place, and how much do you think that will cost, as it surely isnt in any costs being spoken about by the media, the politicans or the president
there needs to be long term discussions and serious future planning to even make this thing ever work, and the president is relying on clueless, spineless politicians and lobbists to craft the legislation blindly without any ideas on how to do it....
the point not discussed and no one seems to be asking is...if this actually went through, who is going to treat the ~50million people that are not insured today? Are we expecting that the current population of doctors in this country could handle an additional 50million people overnight? If only 10% of those get sick in the first year, we'd have to find support for 5million people....how many doctors, nurses, and infrastructure staff wil be required to do this, how long will it take to put in place, and how much do you think that will cost, as it surely isnt in any costs being spoken about by the media, the politicans or the president
there needs to be long term discussions and serious future planning to even make this thing ever work, and the president is relying on clueless, spineless politicians and lobbists to craft the legislation blindly without any ideas on how to do it....
There's a lot to learn from what other countries have in place, both positive and negative, and maybe the US will be able to find a workable middle ground. Seems to me that the best outcome will be a blend of the best of both worlds - good healthcare being available to all, and better healthcare being available to those who choose to go the private route or top up with additional insurance. US care is already very, very good - provided you have the means to pay or you're covered by your insurer. What's missing is the safety net. It worries me that so many people and so many families simply don't have what most of us here have and to some degree take for granted.