Originally Posted by Rudy' post='1019042' date='Sep 28 2009, 01:12 PM

DRANGED, are you speaking for yourself or on behalf of everyone here? Did Sleepy hurt you that much? Really?

Are you sure that the decision by me to wait and see if Diamond had learned from his past mistakes instead of instantly banning him "alienated the rest of the forum in favor of one banned member" as you claim? Are you sure he "lost the respect of this forum 5 aliases ago" as well?

You say you didn't want to "sit idly by while a member bashes a respected member/vendor and friend." Okay, I get it. So does that mean now you're the self-appointed new Sheriff in town? A few weeks ago, we went through a similar thing and made it clear that there are other ways of dealing with members who bash other members. As you said, you probably shouldn't have posted while you were angry. I'm not entirely sure if you were angry or not when you posted your replies to me though.

As far as a "horrible precedence" being set, don't worry, this isn't a court of law. I think we're perfectly able to can take each case as we see them and deal with them in the best interests of the forum. We may not please everyone every time but I think we'll probably make more good decisions than bad ones.

Although we are likely to disagree more than we agree on this subject, thanks for taking the time to post your position to help all of us understand your point of view.

Originally Posted by Rudy' post='1018913' date='Sep 28 2009, 07:15 AM

Guys and gals, I don't know where to start...I'll apologize in advance for what will likely be a bit of a rant/ramble since I've been thinking about this whole incident since late last evening yet I haven't been able to put together all of my thoughts in an organized or concise fashion. I feel that even though I may not be able to fully convey what I'm thinking about all of this, I have to at least chime in now with something...

First, since it's fresh on my mind, let's talk about the idea regarding this possible picture of Diamond. What's important for everyone to realize is that whether a picture exists or not, I'm alarmed that many of you clearly don't understand the concept of how posting such a thing on a public forum without Diamond's permission is simply not done in a mature online environment. As pretty much all of you know, we as a community should act as mature as possible and try to protect each other's identities whenever possible, only using people's personal information once permission is specifically granted. I realize that to some people, the issue of privacy is more important than it is to others but regardless of how important it is to you personally, respect must be given to everyone here and we need to assume that people don't want any personal information or photos to be exposed in these public forums unless we've been specifically told otherwise! Also, even if a picture doesn't exist or is never posted, discussing it and threatening to post one can be intimidating to others. Let's quit the bullying and get back to talking about cars, okay?

Now, about the issue of Diamond's arrival and departure. I don't think I have to repeat the story of the history of this guy on these forums and I'll agree that over the years, many of us, including myself, have had some fun reading some of his posts and seeing how long it would take for him to reappear and get banned again. A few days ago, when he reappeared after a long absence and after skimming through his 250+ posts, I was encouraged that this time, he seemed a bit more reserved as if he'd finally learned his lesson and it seemed as if it would be a good idea to allow him to continue to participate in our forums since it's quite clear that he shares our common enthusiasm for the E60. I knew that he'd face some harsh criticism from some of the veteran members who were still "gung-ho" about playing the "ban sleepyca31" game but I thought that this time, we might be able to handle things a little differently. Sure, banning him was still an option we could have exercised if his behavior did not meet our standards but the way I saw it, we had nothing to lose by letting him have a fair chance to stick around and get to know him a bit better.

I was also encouraged when many of our members, some new and some old, seemed to embrace the chance we were giving him to hang out a while and see where things went. It showed that the members of this board, for the most part, have class and maturity beyond what you normally find on an internet forum. I was proud when many of you folks welcomed him back in his new member introduction thread. It showed that even though we may not all agree all the time and we may not all enjoy each other's company enough to choose to hang out with each other as friends, we were tolerant and understanding that everyone is welcome here and that we can act in a mature way when it's the appropriate thing to do. On this board, in case anyone needs to be reminded, acting in a mature way is not only the appropriate thing to do, it's also the expectation of what to do!

I was extremely disappointed to learn late last evening the things that transpired here between some of our members and Diamond. I know that due to his past (and present) postings, people's fuses were a bit short when it comes to a level of tolerance but in my mind, giving someone a chance usually means allowing for more than a few hours to elapse between the time you start the toleration phase and the time you lose it and go off on a guy. Once the stuff hit the fan, as others have said, it became a bit of a mob scene where people just piled on and didn't let up. On this forum, there's no need to create a situation where someone gets "Owned" because a few people jump to a conclusion or make an accusatory statement and before anyone seeks (or gets) clarification on the matter, they hang the guy out to dry. (Now in the case of quad_m, that's another matter... )

The fact that Diamond has decided he doesn't want to be a part of this scene anymore, to me, says a lot. First, I have to say that I'm a bit disappointed that he ultimately chose such drastic action so quickly after his return. Some have said he needs to have a thicker skin and to an extent, I agree. One thing I'll say in his defense, however, is that I know that at least one post (and possibly more) was edited from the original version that Diamond was able to read. I believe Diamond reacted based on his seeing some information that was personal in nature that just didn't need to be posted (or reposted) here -- regardless of how many people already had knowledge about it or not. What I'm trying to say is that the people who may be judging Diamond for not having a very thick skin may not be reading everything that was originally posted which means it may not be very fair to judge him based on the content of the thread as it appears on the forum now. What good was accomplished by throwing personal information and attacks out there again for everyone to see? :thumbsdown:

For those of you that want to say that Diamond was bashing RPi about their product, I say, "So what?" He had an experience with the product that may not have matched everyone else's but does that mean he's not allowed to talk about it? Why is it so important that he call them for help when he chose to use email instead? Isn't email a pretty mainstream means of communication these days? Sure, there may have been some confusion between the parties but who's to say that a verbal conversation would have been less confusing? Sometimes, when dealing with companies, a written mode of correspondence is better than a verbal one. Either way, they ended up working things out and he ended up being happy with the product except that, in his opinion, the system hung too low and needed an additional hanger. He wanted to talk about that here since what better place to share that information than with fellow enthusiasts who may run into the same issue? Why would that be such a bad thing? I understand many of you are happy with RPi products and personnel and that's great but does that mean that when someone isn't happy with them they should be attacked in a public forum? What's up with that? :thumbsdown: Even the best companies can have disgruntled customers but regardless of the validity of the complaint, how the company handles the issue is even more important to their future success.

Finally (but not because I've said everything that's on my mind, I'm just not able to think as clearly as I'd like to be before adding to this rant), I'd like to point out to and/or remind everyone that in addition to the "Report" function of the forum sofware that you may use if you feel a post needs to be reviewed by the mods or admins, there is an "Ignore" function that you can feel free to use when there's a member here who you would rather not participate in discussions with nor read any of their posts. I think there are a few members here who would have done this forum a great service if they would have chosen to ignore another member and not vented their frustrations in public.

One more thing, as I've said many times before, is that we are a global community and our members are both young and old, come from many countries and from many cultures, have varied levels of education, financial stability and success, and posess varied levels of class and maturity. Regardless of where you come from or where you've been, treating all people with respect in public forums like this one, at least to me, is one of the ultimate indicators of maturity. Also, in my opinion, another significant indicator of maturity is when someone is able to rise above momentary lapses in judgement and make an effort to rectify a bad situation where their actions may have contributed to its cause.

That's all I have for now...thanks for taking the time to read this rambling.

I hope that everyone who may have contributed to this mess takes the time to really stop and think about what they can do to help prevent these things from occurring in the future and maybe consider what they may be able to do to help repair any damage that was done in the current situation.

Originally Posted by Iceman' post='1019051' date='Sep 28 2009, 04:50 AM

To me, RPI is just one more stinking supplier. No saints, no heros, not better than others!
Stop making heroes out of them!
They are not!
This forum is for car enthusiasts!

Regarding RPI...
I am disappointed in reading how they replied to Diamond and how they NOT tried to seriously solve the issues.
I wouldn't buy from them after reading that, because I don't want to risk that trouble.
Diamonds posts were legit. They were his opinion, his point of view.

So STFU and stop defending vendors that can easily speak for themselves!