tachyon

Of course I am. I thought the Swindle show did an excellent job pointing out the role of sunspots on our climate.

lawguy

I dont think Gore has any of "his" own political ambitions remaining, at least as his own future presidency. I may be wrong in this regard (which wouldnt be a first), and would love to see him re-enter political life. But that aside, I think he knows that he got his shot (and despite winning by all conventional measuing devices), I think he's aware that his time as a viable candidate has passed.

Anyone who has followed his career knows his environmental interests were always a focal point throughout the course of his decades long political career and are not a new or suddenly politically convenient issue for him.

m630

surely, and our own data has proven the effect of sunspot and our climate...during the 17th century, europe experienced a 'mini ice age' where the river thames was frozed over, amost many other things, and the scentific data has shown that this occured during an extended period of no sunspot solar activity..coincidence??

...btw, if you want to really understand how big the prominences and CMEs (coronal mass ejections) really are, here's a good pix for scale...

As for Gore, i must disagree, he is all about politics, he has been groomed from birth by his family to try to be the president, he just isnt going to be one....

and though he has always clamored about the environment, in 8 years as the VP, he did nothing to influence changes in our country or society, so why would anyone think that he would get anything done now? he's all bs, unfortunately...

lawguy

C'mon...what on earth can a VP really get accomplished (other than apparently convincing his boss to invade a foreign nation under false pretenses - a topic for another day).

Seriously though, are you suggesting Gore bears in the blame for the US's failure to sign the Kyoto treaty or act in any more of an envionmentally conscious way? Saying that he did "nothing" suggests a failure as such. I would think you could at least admit - like him or not - that he's promoting awareness of environmental issues thorugh his efforts (whether politically motivated or not), which beats the heck out of all the other politicians (of either party) who still want to spend time debating whether environmental concerns even exist. Whether you agree or disagree as to the origin of the environmental issues facing our planet, at least he's a voice saying "Hey, let's take a look". I only wish there were more people in political office in every nation doing the same thing.

Aside: As for being "groomed" to be president, as we're seeing, even with Presidential parents, a proper grooming isnt always the answer!

PS - Excellent diagram, as to the relative size of earth. Very interesting stuff.....

rodybmw

That's just it though, he is NOT saying "Hey, let's take a look" as you said. What he is saying (which happens to be his biggest lie in The Inconvenient Truth) is that the debate on global warming is over in the scientific community. This is what infuriates the scientists with opposing views, but Gore and his GW buddies in Hollywood, the media, and elsewhere will not even acknowledge that there are real and credible scientists with opposing views. They are just presenting their own views on GW as the proven and undebatable truth while silencing the scientists on the other side by not even acknowledging their existence. It's almost like saying "here's what we want you to think and believe about GW and don't look at the opposite views because we don't want you to be confused with the facts"

lawguy

An interesting thought - I guess its all just a matter of perception. I saw the Inconvenient Truth and thought it was thought provoking. I guess I just didnt appreciate the "debate is over within the scientific community" angle, and since I'm fairly new to learning about environmental issues, I took at as more of an "hey, we gotta do something" kind of message. Perhaps I'd consumed too many bourbons that night (always a possibility.... ), but I wasnt left with the overwhelming impression that he was touting that the debate is over. I just took it as being passionate about his views.

You know, its funny, but I just realized what everyone meant by using "GW". And to think, I presumed it was a ref. to "W - the Pres". DUH!

I think this has been a fun & engaging thread. I like the differing viewpoints - really gives you a chance to think...

m630

....as you cleverly point out, a VP can do nearly anything if they have the will to do so

i dont blame him personally, all im saying is, when he did have the podium for 8 years, he never said a word or rather never did anything to try to make things alot better. why would anyone think that if he was running the country with everything else going on in the world that he would dedicate any time or effort to this issue?

...i dont know if i can agree that he is bringing any real awareness to this issue, i think he is confusing and polarizing ideology as much as he is raising issues, and they are politically motivated, especially that he now starts shouting as the race for president next year heats up...

why didnt he scream last year or 2 years ago? this has been an ongoing issue in the world since the Clinton years when we did not sign Kyoto (which I agreed with not signing), but no peep till recent times...its just too inconsistent for him to have any credibility in my mind....

i do agree that i wish all nations of the world would work together on this issue, (and all issues in ernest) but we all know that is not possible...even in Kyoto, it exempted what reps considered "3rd world or Developing nations" from participating and have any stake in the manner....when you exclude some countries since they are not as technologically savy as the US, then you basically give them an economic advantage that they inturn use against us. we cannot allow that as much as we may want to do things

however, obviously i have an interest in this subject and do follow more than the average person, and consider myself an an environmentally conscious person (atleast as much as I can be)...but i think it only hurts the issue by clouding it with ideology rather than some scientific consensus, and clearly the things he's promoting are politically motivated now....we'll have to see what happens ....

as for the fun stuff...space science trully is amazing, and my passion is Astrophysics thats why it offends me so much how Gore is twisting science for political gain, id rather he suggested an initiative to teach all American students science as a manadtory subject with a concentrating on earth and space science and how we are part of a much, much larger Solar system that is dynamic and completely in control of our destiny at this point in our human history......

rodybmw

This is not a response to one particular poster, but a general response to several posters from above.

It boggles my mind that some of you seem convinced that YOU are right about GW because Al Gore, the media, Hollywood, "the scientists", or whoever else convinced you of it, and if anyone gives any credence to the many scientist whose research supports the opposite view then THEY are the stupid idiots who have very low intelligence levels. I have two things to say to you: First of all, stop with the elitist mentality that you and everyone on your side has a superior intelligence level compared to the people who don't agree with you. I know this mentality is very common in elitist liberal circles, but that doesn't make it true. Secondly, I have some news for you......."the box" at this point in time contains the GW views that YOU believe in, so it's YOU who are thinking inside the box and maybe YOU should "do you homework and try to think outside the box" and see what other views there are on GW outside the box.

Also, please stop implying that those whose belief in GW is not the same as yours get their facts and talking points from "The President, his party, and the Religious Right". Some of us try to look at the scientific research that is out there instead of getting our information from current or past politicians, lobbyists, or hip and cool celebrities.

m630

i agree rody, though i hope that we who do have the competing thoughts on this subject try to speak in a different tone than those in the liberal elite choose to, and try to bring out plausible reasons why we do not agree with them...otherwise i fear we will be looked at just as they are, just screamers if you will...

you have to love hollywood though, the bleeding heart liberals will drive to the Oscars in a Prius to show themselves as 'social-economically' conscious citizens, while ever other day of the year they are chauffered around in limos from house to house and then to the airport where they jump on their own private jets and then use as much fuel on one flight from the west coast to the east coast as a normal american family probably does in a year

...the hypocracy of our democracy...

tachyon

Hmmm .... it turns out that a Prius requires more energy to build, drive, and maintain than a Hummer.

There are always inconvenient unintended consequences.

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage