JetBlack5OC

+1 swajames, can always count on some good info from you. Bimmer fans just have a tough time taking it.

I believe I remember reading somewhere the avant is not coming to the US, only the sedan.

We really should be comparing it to the M5 wagon numbers.

We will need to wait until a magazine gets their hands on a RS6 sedan, to get the real numbers. Not the conservative Audi numbers, rumors are Audi has massively understated the hp/tq/0-60 numbers.

swajames

Ha! I'm certainly not intending to be down on the M5, it's just an incredible machine. That said, we have to acknowledge that MB, Audi and others do make some awesome vehicles too. Bottom line is that for BMW owners there's nothing better than the competition keeping BMW on its toes - and the RS6 will certainly do that.

I think you're right on the Avant, pretty sure the US market only gets the sedan.

E60BEEMER

the rs6, will be quicker in all aspects, its new and made to take these cars on.

Audi would not launch a car to be slower then its MAIN rivals, although it has come 3 and half years later than the M5,

M5 E60 is faster then the E55 amg however, seen many vids of M5 opening the E55.

BetterMakeWay

Ok no disrespect but let's stop the BS. Let's better wait for the factory specs and than we'll compare both cars. I am sure the RS6 will be much much heavier. It's logic. You on the other hand say that it will not be so noticeable. We'll see. That V10 with turbo+intercoolers+quattro makes for alot of weight despite all the things you bring up in audi's defense. You say the RS6 comes with extensive use on aluminium, and M5 comes with what ? Wood?

Bottom line is that someone pointed spme very valid points: 1. The RS6 will have way more drivetrain loss so you can kiss bye bye to some important hp (i'm not talking in 2-3 hp, i'm talking in tenths). 2. The RS6 will be heavier than the M5. FACT! So it will be a handicap. We'll see how much more.

3rd one of the most important factors for me which i can't bealive everybody forgets or overlooks is RWD capability and fun. Good luck throwing around an RS6 is drifting style on some twisties. Good luck launching the car with launch control or with tire smoke.

ANd before some nitwit starts talking rubbish about the M5 as it isn't the car to do such stuff in the 1st place, well in a way it isn't and yet it is, and it acts so good and it's such a good compromise that one might even overlook a Ferrari F430 which should be more of a proper car for that stuff.

Bottom line:In almost every car test about the M5, people said that it's incredible how the car drives and how it handles, most of them comparing it with 2 door proper sports cars despite the REAL weight of the thing. Even JC from Top Gear said so, he who is NOT a bmw fan. When a company achives this and leaves the driver with such a feeling, well you've gotta respect that. If that's not important than i assume BMW in it's all, is not for you. Conclusion: I don't remember anybody saying so about an RS6, S6, or E AMG or CLS AMG. When Audi will come up with such a car i will rest my case.

swajames

I'm not defending Audi (I don't own one). That said, there's no BS in my post, and I strongly suspect the RS6 may well be just the car to have you rest your case. Audi is making some great hardware these days. Case in point, the new E92 M3 which isn't dominating the RS4 the way the E46 dominated its competition. As for AWD vs RWD, that's largely a myth. Never mind Audi, even Porsche believes AWD can have handling benefits. In fact, the 997 Turbo is only available in AWD (and FWIW is faster with an automatic gearbox, so there you have two myths dispelled for the price of one). The S6 also handled very creditably against the M5 in the tests earlier this year. Long story short is that it's perfectly possible to admire the M5 whilst respecting other competitors - at the end of the day, if we take off the blinkers, other companies can also make some pretty impressive machines.

By the way - Clarkson owns (or at least owned) an M5.

JetBlack5OC

Are you talking about Clarkson from Top Gear, have you seen his video reviews of the M5. He ripped it a new asshole. He hated the looks, electronics, interior. The only thing he like was the power.

Don't try to convince "BetterMakeWay" a Audi maybe faster than the M5, he will never give in. Its a endless battle.

swajames

Yep - same Clarkson. I'm sure I read somewhere that we was apparently an M5 owner (or at least had one). Either way, that M5 review was classic Clarkson, as you say he rips in to something for the comedy value then drops the money shot at the end (and IIRC I think that's what he did with the M5 which I think he really did like!). I'm a big Clarkson fan so I give him a free pass anyway.

BetterMakeWay

I'm not implying you defend Audi by being biased as an owner, i'm saying that before official datas are shown and test are being done some people start to speculate frm various unofficial sources. From that the story starts and that becomes more or less BS. I like more to talk on facts not stories.

I don't find anything spectacular on the RS6, it's a v10 biturbo so 580bhp is not so astonishing considering the V10 from the M5 NA delivers 507. In fact 580 bhp is achievable with a turbo V8 not v10, and imo a v10 can deliver so much more. Hell the E46 M3 with a supercharger can pump 500bhp with just 6 cylinders and 3.2 liters of displacement. The way bigger torque is to be expected form a turbo car. Simple! Not wow but simple. Apples and oranges? Remember? Some people love the NA engines high reving for their response and screaming power, other settle for a more relaxed beefier power and torque delivery expected from a turbo engine.

AWD is NOT the true way for the ultimate driving experience. Period. Nor theoretically the fastest option, othewise F1 and other high end motorsport would have had AWD. Please RWD vs AWD is not just a mith, and if you think so than i really think now that you bought a rwd car for nothing. I find myself almost daily switching the DSC off for a little tail happy experience. Generally speakin the car that will always set your pants on fire will be the RWD CAR. How about some provoked oversteer? Then countersteer....and this done only with the throttle. Like i said good luck with this in the quattro. Do you even know what i'm talkign about?

None the less bringing up the Porsche Turbo into discussion is not the greates ideea in the defense of what is better or what approach is better. I think you know the latest 911 model. It's called the GT2 and according to Porsche it's the most powerfull and most hardcore Porsche ever made for the street. And it's RWD. How do you explain that? How do you explain that Porsche that "believes AWD can have handling benefits. In fact, the 997 Turbo is only available in AWD (and FWIW is faster with an automatic gearbox, so there you have two myths dispelled for the price of one)" now? Turbo is more of a crusier than a hard core sports car. Automatic is faster than manual? THere's nothing new here and nothing surprising as the turbo comes with VTG and the automatic keeps better the turbos spooled under acceleration. THis combined with the shift times, overlooks the actual bigger power loss by the tranny. Porsche doesn't yet have a proper DSG or sequential tranny to fit the high-end beasty models. That's why the GT2 is offered with manual tranny only.

S6 comes with an engine more comparative than the RS6 to the m5. In fact it has a slighty bigger displacement and i remember it's slower than the M5 in most of the tests. Yeah it "handled very creditably against the M5 " but no use if the car is generally slower.

Later edit: "Case in point, the new E92 M3 which isn't dominating the RS4 the way the E46 dominated its competition." And how exactly did you come to this conclusion?

BetterMakeWay

Dude an audi can anytime be faster than a bmw,no sweat, the problem is how puerile the sentence is "faster than..." and also how much this sole argument (as vague as it is) counts in the buying decision. For me it is important, none the less, but much more detailed and analised, and is as much as important as many more arguments that count the same. Who on earth drives his car on a daily basis in tenths of a second or versus the timer to get to work.