Business Navigation retrofit & dension gateway 500/mobridge
07-08-2008, 09:06 AM
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My Ride: 03 BMW E60 520i - Steptronic - Black Sapphire - Style 116 wheels (Pirelli PZero Rosso) - PDC - Beige Dakota Leather - Dark Poplar Wood
Hi all,
I'm thinking to replace my standard business radio (MASK) with business navigation unit (MASK). The reason I want to do this is to be able to play mp3 cds and then to install gateway 500 or mobridge. Both of those systems required mp3 capable system in order to be able to browse your ipod content. Does anybody knows if business navigation meets these requirements? I found a seller in ebay that is selling his business navigation unit which is production of 41/03 and part number 65.12-6 944 004 but I wasn't able to find this part number in ETK. My car is production of Oct/03. Any ideas if this is going to work?
I'm thinking to replace my standard business radio (MASK) with business navigation unit (MASK). The reason I want to do this is to be able to play mp3 cds and then to install gateway 500 or mobridge. Both of those systems required mp3 capable system in order to be able to browse your ipod content. Does anybody knows if business navigation meets these requirements? I found a seller in ebay that is selling his business navigation unit which is production of 41/03 and part number 65.12-6 944 004 but I wasn't able to find this part number in ETK. My car is production of Oct/03. Any ideas if this is going to work?
07-20-2008, 10:16 AM
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>I'm thinking to replace my standard business radio (MASK) with business navigation unit (MASK). The reason I want to do this is to be able to play mp3 cds >and then to install gateway 500 or mobridge. Both of those systems required mp3 capable system in order to be able to browse your ipod content. Does >anybody knows if business navigation meets these requirements?
I have a non Nav 530D manufactured around Oct 04. I never did get the MP3 CD working but I did succesfully have BMW Install an IPOD interface and code the car about two years ago. It gives full text display etc and I know I don't have professional radio, which means I have MASK not CCC. Though the BMW IPOD interface is complete rubbish in that I cannot access more than half my 80GB install due to known folder limits and playlist bugs etc, that BMW have no intention of ever fixing it does basically work and the sound is good. I do plan to purchase a MoBridge unit as it does not have these limitations and they reckon it will work if the BMW interface works and displays text.
Before you go down the route of a Nav upgrade you might want to check with BMW that it is impossible to retrofit the BMW IPOD kit. In the UK there was a specific dealer that knew what they were doing and specialised in reasonably cheap install. There was much confusion over this and I still don't think this area is fully understand, I was orignally told by some dealers that I could not install the IPOD adaptor.
I reckon if that could work and the car can be coded then you might go straight for the Mobridge. I was impressed by what I have heard about the Mobridge though I still see no forum write up from an E60 owner that has gone this route. I think you will need the car coding for sure, if you can't get a sensible answer from BMW you may even want to purchase the Mobridge and try it, the company seem good to deal with based on my initial impressions.
I have a non Nav 530D manufactured around Oct 04. I never did get the MP3 CD working but I did succesfully have BMW Install an IPOD interface and code the car about two years ago. It gives full text display etc and I know I don't have professional radio, which means I have MASK not CCC. Though the BMW IPOD interface is complete rubbish in that I cannot access more than half my 80GB install due to known folder limits and playlist bugs etc, that BMW have no intention of ever fixing it does basically work and the sound is good. I do plan to purchase a MoBridge unit as it does not have these limitations and they reckon it will work if the BMW interface works and displays text.
Before you go down the route of a Nav upgrade you might want to check with BMW that it is impossible to retrofit the BMW IPOD kit. In the UK there was a specific dealer that knew what they were doing and specialised in reasonably cheap install. There was much confusion over this and I still don't think this area is fully understand, I was orignally told by some dealers that I could not install the IPOD adaptor.
I reckon if that could work and the car can be coded then you might go straight for the Mobridge. I was impressed by what I have heard about the Mobridge though I still see no forum write up from an E60 owner that has gone this route. I think you will need the car coding for sure, if you can't get a sensible answer from BMW you may even want to purchase the Mobridge and try it, the company seem good to deal with based on my initial impressions.
07-23-2008, 04:12 AM
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My Ride: 03 BMW E60 520i - Steptronic - Black Sapphire - Style 116 wheels (Pirelli PZero Rosso) - PDC - Beige Dakota Leather - Dark Poplar Wood
Hi mtrhead,
The limitations of BMW ipod interface is what keeping me back of installing it. The third party solutions (see dension & mobridge) overcome these limitations but if you don't have professional radio you don't get text. Mobridge in the absence of professional radio is even worst since you can only use you first 5 or 6 play lists. Gateway 500 in this case is more flexible.
It seems that upgrading our business radio to professional radio (or business navigation) is not that hard but you can't take things for granted with E60. I don't want to spend 200-300 GBP on a second hand unit just to find out that is not functioning with my car.
Recently I bought a brand new video interface which is operated via i-drive's menu button. This will give me more options since I can now install a third party factory system expansion controller like Alpine's VechicleHub Pro or Kenwood's KOS-V1000. Specs wise Kenwood is better but controlling operations I think Alpine's Orb is much better.
With all these options I can't decide which way to go
The limitations of BMW ipod interface is what keeping me back of installing it. The third party solutions (see dension & mobridge) overcome these limitations but if you don't have professional radio you don't get text. Mobridge in the absence of professional radio is even worst since you can only use you first 5 or 6 play lists. Gateway 500 in this case is more flexible.
It seems that upgrading our business radio to professional radio (or business navigation) is not that hard but you can't take things for granted with E60. I don't want to spend 200-300 GBP on a second hand unit just to find out that is not functioning with my car.
Recently I bought a brand new video interface which is operated via i-drive's menu button. This will give me more options since I can now install a third party factory system expansion controller like Alpine's VechicleHub Pro or Kenwood's KOS-V1000. Specs wise Kenwood is better but controlling operations I think Alpine's Orb is much better.
With all these options I can't decide which way to go
07-23-2008, 07:39 AM
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My Ride: BMW E60 520d SE Saloon M47 2.0dTitanium Grey II, Grey−Dakota Leather, Visibility Package, Media Package, Through Load System, Lumbar support − fr seats, Automatic Air Conditioning−Advanced, High beam assistant, Hi−Fi Loudspeak
Model Year: 2006
I'd say if you are taking the trouble of upgrading then go straight to the Pro Nav.
07-23-2008, 10:18 AM
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My Ride: 03 BMW E60 520i - Steptronic - Black Sapphire - Style 116 wheels (Pirelli PZero Rosso) - PDC - Beige Dakota Leather - Dark Poplar Wood
Upgrading to Prof. Nav is very hard and expensive. Also in my case I only need the mp3 playback/text capability of the professional unit since BMW's Nav. DVD does not has any Cyprus maps (I'm 100% sure about this so correct me if I'm wrong
Anyway, it seems that Gateway 500 can't display any text information if is used with a MASK (Business or Professional) unit. According to member GW500 MASK units are not able to play mp3 from CDC and this is the reason. I'm curious though how BMW's ipod interface can display text information since both systems emulate CDC. It will be nice to check if Gateway 500 can display text info. on a car that has already been coded for BMW's ipod interface.
Anyway, it seems that Gateway 500 can't display any text information if is used with a MASK (Business or Professional) unit. According to member GW500 MASK units are not able to play mp3 from CDC and this is the reason. I'm curious though how BMW's ipod interface can display text information since both systems emulate CDC. It will be nice to check if Gateway 500 can display text info. on a car that has already been coded for BMW's ipod interface.
07-24-2008, 10:26 AM
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>The limitations of BMW ipod interface is what keeping me back of installing it. The third party solutions (see dension & mobridge) overcome these limitations but if you don't >have professional radio you don't get text.
H Kekkos, yes I would not recommend the BMW interface if you like your tunes and have anything over a 40GB IPOD as you'll really struggle to get to the songs. I thought I could playlist my way around the folder limitations but all that happens is you hit annoying limitations where the I-drive will not display past a certain number of playlists. So for example if you were hoping to get to artists P-Q using a load of playlists a, B, C etc you'll never see it! I proved the issue to BMW but they refused to take it any further citing limitations with the I-drive (a lame response in my view)
> Mobridge in the absence of professional radio is even worst since you can only use you first 5 or 6 play lists. Gateway 500 in this >case is more flexible.
I'm not sure that is correct at all, can you tell me where you read that? When I last looked at the Mobridge manual on line there is no such limit. You can reach all your playlists..the clever thing both the Mobridge and Dension interfaces do is page through much larger lists.
>It seems that upgrading our business radio to professional radio (or business navigation) is not that hard but you can't take things for granted with E60. I don't want to spend >200-300 GBP on a second hand unit just to find out that is not functioning with my car.
I also looked into this before I got my BMW IPOD Interface installed as, like you, I thought I had to have prof radio to get text. BMW quoted me a rough ?1200 to retrofit prof radio which I kindly declined
But what I am saying is that I don't know how BMW did it but I do have text and yet I don't have a prof radio and neither is my car MY2005. So somehow, though my hardware is not meant to be capable the BMW interface does run text. I've been in touch with Mobridge and they are of the opinion there is nothing special here, if the BMW interface can display text then they feel their Mobridge interface should. If I can find the time and a local UK dealer willing to let me try this and return the unit it if text cannot work then I'll update the forum on the outcome.
My impression here is that there is much confusion on our cars made around this time and how the hardware hangs together with respect to the text capability. I'm not sure Dension or Mobridge (and possibly BMW) really understand it. All I can say was the dealer who did my BMW IPOD install was quite confident that my unit could display text even though BMW UK told me my car would never be MP3 CD capable becuase I didn't order prof radio. So this leaves me to question whether MP3 CD and Text functionality are really related. It also maybe makes me think my car manufactured around Sep/Oct 04 might have in some way have gotten updated hardware, which again, is not understood.
H Kekkos, yes I would not recommend the BMW interface if you like your tunes and have anything over a 40GB IPOD as you'll really struggle to get to the songs. I thought I could playlist my way around the folder limitations but all that happens is you hit annoying limitations where the I-drive will not display past a certain number of playlists. So for example if you were hoping to get to artists P-Q using a load of playlists a, B, C etc you'll never see it! I proved the issue to BMW but they refused to take it any further citing limitations with the I-drive (a lame response in my view)
> Mobridge in the absence of professional radio is even worst since you can only use you first 5 or 6 play lists. Gateway 500 in this >case is more flexible.
I'm not sure that is correct at all, can you tell me where you read that? When I last looked at the Mobridge manual on line there is no such limit. You can reach all your playlists..the clever thing both the Mobridge and Dension interfaces do is page through much larger lists.
>It seems that upgrading our business radio to professional radio (or business navigation) is not that hard but you can't take things for granted with E60. I don't want to spend >200-300 GBP on a second hand unit just to find out that is not functioning with my car.
I also looked into this before I got my BMW IPOD Interface installed as, like you, I thought I had to have prof radio to get text. BMW quoted me a rough ?1200 to retrofit prof radio which I kindly declined
But what I am saying is that I don't know how BMW did it but I do have text and yet I don't have a prof radio and neither is my car MY2005. So somehow, though my hardware is not meant to be capable the BMW interface does run text. I've been in touch with Mobridge and they are of the opinion there is nothing special here, if the BMW interface can display text then they feel their Mobridge interface should. If I can find the time and a local UK dealer willing to let me try this and return the unit it if text cannot work then I'll update the forum on the outcome.
My impression here is that there is much confusion on our cars made around this time and how the hardware hangs together with respect to the text capability. I'm not sure Dension or Mobridge (and possibly BMW) really understand it. All I can say was the dealer who did my BMW IPOD install was quite confident that my unit could display text even though BMW UK told me my car would never be MP3 CD capable becuase I didn't order prof radio. So this leaves me to question whether MP3 CD and Text functionality are really related. It also maybe makes me think my car manufactured around Sep/Oct 04 might have in some way have gotten updated hardware, which again, is not understood.
07-25-2008, 02:06 PM
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Hi Mtrhead,
I'm quoting from mObridge manual page 17 "Without text display on the HU, it is not possible to browse the iPod by folder. Instead the user can load up select playlists. These playlists can be numbered ?DISC1?, ?DISC2?,?DISC3?,?DISC4?,?DISC5?. The sixth disc is reserved for the Aux audio/Menu control.
If the user does not number these discs, then the first five playlists are loaded by default anyway. If the user has only labelled a limited number of discs such as only DISC1 and DISC2, then the remaing discs will be loaded with the iPod playlists."
Regarding our business unit I think is clear. Business unit (no NAV) = NO mp3 + NO CDTEXT, Business NAV => Professional Radio = CDTEXT + mp3 capable with update after 03/05. If I'm not mistaken when BMW interface first introduced was intended only for cars manufactured after 03/05. At some time later, they set the interface can be installed on any E60. I was at the BMW dealer yesterday and he told that the interface can be installed on my car at the cost of ?700 including labor and coding!
I was reading on a thread yesterday that a member with CDC did the retrofit himself and everything was working, but when he went to his dealer for PROGMAN update, there was an error during update because the car wasn't coded for the interface. As soon as the interface was removed, update continued with out any errors. I'm not sure if BMW is doing something else and is able to display text information.
Good luck finding a dealer and keep us posted.
I'm quoting from mObridge manual page 17 "Without text display on the HU, it is not possible to browse the iPod by folder. Instead the user can load up select playlists. These playlists can be numbered ?DISC1?, ?DISC2?,?DISC3?,?DISC4?,?DISC5?. The sixth disc is reserved for the Aux audio/Menu control.
If the user does not number these discs, then the first five playlists are loaded by default anyway. If the user has only labelled a limited number of discs such as only DISC1 and DISC2, then the remaing discs will be loaded with the iPod playlists."
Regarding our business unit I think is clear. Business unit (no NAV) = NO mp3 + NO CDTEXT, Business NAV => Professional Radio = CDTEXT + mp3 capable with update after 03/05. If I'm not mistaken when BMW interface first introduced was intended only for cars manufactured after 03/05. At some time later, they set the interface can be installed on any E60. I was at the BMW dealer yesterday and he told that the interface can be installed on my car at the cost of ?700 including labor and coding!
I was reading on a thread yesterday that a member with CDC did the retrofit himself and everything was working, but when he went to his dealer for PROGMAN update, there was an error during update because the car wasn't coded for the interface. As soon as the interface was removed, update continued with out any errors. I'm not sure if BMW is doing something else and is able to display text information.
Good luck finding a dealer and keep us posted.
07-25-2008, 11:48 PM
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I've just had my MASK non nav system recoded to accept an ipod kit. The indash CD player now plays mp3 files.
Interestingly when I had it done they said that they couldn't upgrade the software without the hardware being present, so I said "No probs. there's a brand new unopened CD changer in the boot (trunk to the cousins!!) connect it up as required but don't install it". It did take overnight for the software to go in correctly. Interestingly on getting the car back the bluetooth wouldn't connect so back to the shop and two days later all fixed, it appears that on removing the the CD changer a (their words!) 'special block' has to be installed that they new nothing about...... read shorting link!
Anyway everthing is now OK!
Interestingly when I had it done they said that they couldn't upgrade the software without the hardware being present, so I said "No probs. there's a brand new unopened CD changer in the boot (trunk to the cousins!!) connect it up as required but don't install it". It did take overnight for the software to go in correctly. Interestingly on getting the car back the bluetooth wouldn't connect so back to the shop and two days later all fixed, it appears that on removing the the CD changer a (their words!) 'special block' has to be installed that they new nothing about...... read shorting link!
Anyway everthing is now OK!
07-26-2008, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by daven' post='633007' date='Jul 26 2008, 10:48 AM
I've just had my MASK non nav system recoded to accept an ipod kit. The indash CD player now plays mp3 files.
Interestingly when I had it done they said that they couldn't upgrade the software without the hardware being present, so I said "No probs. there's a brand new unopened CD changer in the boot (trunk to the cousins!!) connect it up as required but don't install it". It did take overnight for the software to go in correctly. Interestingly on getting the car back the bluetooth wouldn't connect so back to the shop and two days later all fixed, it appears that on removing the the CD changer a (their words!) 'special block' has to be installed that they new nothing about...... read shorting link!
Anyway everthing is now OK!
Interestingly when I had it done they said that they couldn't upgrade the software without the hardware being present, so I said "No probs. there's a brand new unopened CD changer in the boot (trunk to the cousins!!) connect it up as required but don't install it". It did take overnight for the software to go in correctly. Interestingly on getting the car back the bluetooth wouldn't connect so back to the shop and two days later all fixed, it appears that on removing the the CD changer a (their words!) 'special block' has to be installed that they new nothing about...... read shorting link!
Anyway everthing is now OK!
09-11-2008, 11:26 AM
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My Ride: 03 BMW E60 520i - Steptronic - Black Sapphire - Style 116 wheels (Pirelli PZero Rosso) - PDC - Beige Dakota Leather - Dark Poplar Wood
I managed to upgrade my Business M-ASK today to Business Navigation. Retrofit was straight forward. Car was already on progman version 28 and we didn't upgrade it to newer version. Coding took around 1 hour. During programming the mp3 functionality was added automatically. The only thing that I don't like now, is that every time I switch on the car the head unit displays "Please insert Navigation DVD". Is there any way to get rid of this message without having to press menu button every time? Also I noticed that when I play mp3 cd and the car is switched off, the next time the car is switched on the unit does not remember the last track and it starts from track 1.
I would like to take this opportunity and thanks member arta for providing the Business Navigation unit.
We haven't installed the trim yet since I'm planning to install Dension's Gateway 500 and BTA1500 next Monday. I'll keep you posted.
Here are some pictures of the whole process. Sorry for the low quality, I took the pictures using my iphone.
Progman modules
Equipment
Update progress
MP3 playback, Ploutarhos rocks
I would like to take this opportunity and thanks member arta for providing the Business Navigation unit.
We haven't installed the trim yet since I'm planning to install Dension's Gateway 500 and BTA1500 next Monday. I'll keep you posted.
Here are some pictures of the whole process. Sorry for the low quality, I took the pictures using my iphone.
Progman modules
Equipment
Update progress
MP3 playback, Ploutarhos rocks