What are the merits of I6 engines over V6
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Originally Posted by colejl' post='371210' date='Dec 26 2006, 12:00 PM
Yeah, I was going to work out the specific outputs but couldn't be bothered! When the 530i gets updated to 270bhp-ish is mighty impressive considering the Infiniti needs 500cc more and the Acura 700cc. I'd also like the see the comparative emissions and consumption figures?
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='371214' date='Dec 26 2006, 10:10 PM
... the BMW I6 is a great engine but it does have V6 peers that are just about as good, and that was really the main point of my posts.
If you only look into given measurements, you could say the 70' BMW 1,5 litre F1 turbo engine was something:
More than 1000 hp's from a small row4...
In these days the small 2.0 R4 engines gives well more than 600 hp turbocharged and racetuned.
I'm still looking foreward to my first experience with a strong family car factory engine:
A sixinline full aluminum, direct injected and twin turbo charged 3.0 litre unit (handling all emission standards).
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Originally Posted by Ricracing' post='371248' date='Dec 26 2006, 02:22 PM
We are not talking about hp's, but of engine mechanical tech.
If you only look into given measurements, you could say the 70' BMW 1,5 litre F1 turbo engine was something:
More than 1000 hp's from a small row4...
In these days the small 2.0 R4 engines gives well more than 600 hp turbocharged and racetuned.
I'm still looking foreward to my first experience with a strong family car factory engine:
A sixinline full aluminum, direct injected and twin turbo charged 3.0 litre unit (handling all emission standards).
If you only look into given measurements, you could say the 70' BMW 1,5 litre F1 turbo engine was something:
More than 1000 hp's from a small row4...
In these days the small 2.0 R4 engines gives well more than 600 hp turbocharged and racetuned.
I'm still looking foreward to my first experience with a strong family car factory engine:
A sixinline full aluminum, direct injected and twin turbo charged 3.0 litre unit (handling all emission standards).
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='371249' date='Dec 27 2006, 12:29 AM
..but within their class the two V6's I mentioned (and arguably Honda's in particular) are amongst the most advanced on the market.
PS. Just looked at a couple year old TV series where two Brittish guys drove with GS BMW 1150's
from Europe thru Eastern EU, Russia, Mongilia etc to Alaska and the US and met the Orange County
Chopper guys.
That's Boxer twin meets the V2 twins and nobody was talking about mechanical vibrations...
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Originally Posted by Ricracing' post='371263' date='Dec 26 2006, 03:14 PM
As V6 engines
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='371214' date='Dec 26 2006, 08:10 PM
In fairness, Acura's engine is a 3.5, not a 3.7, and the 3.5l VQ Infiniti makes up to 306 hp (from 290 to 206 dependent upon specific application, but it's essentially an identical engine). [snip] A good engine is a good engine, doesn't really matter whether it's I6 or V6, it's not necessarily clear than one is inherently better than the other!
Even without this evidence, everybody would agree that a V6 can pull out the same relative performance as an inline 6 (or viceversa), given that even at 87 bhp/l we are still far away from top performance naturally aspirated engines (100+ bhp/l in road cars: BMW-M, Honda R; never mind motorcycles that pull out 120+ bhp/l with seeming ease).
However - and perhaps here we part company - an inline is inherently smoother, needs fewer components and is easier to manufacture - at the cost of greater size. None of which prevents either being the more powerful engine. There's nothing you or I can do to change the laws of physics. Which one is "better" will depend on many other factors, including application.
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Originally Posted by Ricracing' post='371263' date='Dec 26 2006, 11:14 PM
[snip]
PS. Just looked at a couple year old TV series where two Brittish guys drove with GS BMW 1150's
from Europe thru Eastern EU, Russia, Mongilia etc to Alaska and the US and met the Orange County
Chopper guys.
That's Boxer twin meets the V2 twins and nobody was talking about mechanical vibrations...
PS. Just looked at a couple year old TV series where two Brittish guys drove with GS BMW 1150's
from Europe thru Eastern EU, Russia, Mongilia etc to Alaska and the US and met the Orange County
Chopper guys.
That's Boxer twin meets the V2 twins and nobody was talking about mechanical vibrations...
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I have learned a lot by reading this thread. I would imagine that over a long period of time, an I6 (if mounted perfectly vertical) will wear out less than a V6 or a boxer type engine. My theory is that when a cylinder is mounted horizontally (line in a boxer engine) or at an angle (like on a V6), the force of gravity will be constantly be pushing the piston against one side of the cylinder wall. I would imagine that this will cause it to wear sooner on that side, right?
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Originally Posted by eegrad' post='372151' date='Dec 29 2006, 09:40 PM
I have learned a lot by reading this thread. I would imagine that over a long period of time, an I6 (if mounted perfectly vertical) will wear out less than a V6 or a boxer type engine. My theory is that when a cylinder is mounted horizontally (line in a boxer engine) or at an angle (like on a V6), the force of gravity will be constantly be pushing the piston against one side of the cylinder wall. I would imagine that this will cause it to wear sooner on that side, right?
A six cylinder engine, with the cylinders put in a row, is a mechanical stable engine!
The V6's need extra, non power producing contra weights, to get the engine stable!
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Ric, with respect, but I think you are missing eegrad's point. Which BTW is correct.
Pistons in horizontal or angled engines will wear more rapidly on one side, though how much more rapidly is open to question. I have seen it "for real" in BMW boxer motorcycle engines; taking engines with a few tens of thousand kilometers apart, the pistons were considerably shinier on the "bottom" side, whereas the "top" side often still had the manufacturing tool marks (lathe rings) visible. I don't remember seeing this effect on "angled" engines, though I suppose it must be there, even if to a much lesser extent.
Nothing to do with balance or - as you put it - stability. If you fitted an I6 horizontally (I don't know of any, but the K series BMW motorbikes have I3 and I4 horizontal engines), it would have the same problem. It would however remain perfectly balanced.
Pistons in horizontal or angled engines will wear more rapidly on one side, though how much more rapidly is open to question. I have seen it "for real" in BMW boxer motorcycle engines; taking engines with a few tens of thousand kilometers apart, the pistons were considerably shinier on the "bottom" side, whereas the "top" side often still had the manufacturing tool marks (lathe rings) visible. I don't remember seeing this effect on "angled" engines, though I suppose it must be there, even if to a much lesser extent.
Nothing to do with balance or - as you put it - stability. If you fitted an I6 horizontally (I don't know of any, but the K series BMW motorbikes have I3 and I4 horizontal engines), it would have the same problem. It would however remain perfectly balanced.