problem solved; engine 525D not reaching operating temperature.
03-24-2009, 09:33 AM
#141
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Good news guys, I dropped my car off today and i managed to get a quick word with the Tech. I explained my logic behind why i thought the stat was faulty which he seemed to be happy to listen to, he said he would check it out but it did sound faulty. I asked about the oil leak and he said it might be a breather hose so he agreed to look at that also. The dealer called me and advised that the main stat was indeed faulty + warranty is covering it, they also advised that the breather wasnt covered 
but also needed replaced (not too expensive). I have asked them to proceed with the repairs for both parts, they are going to do this tomorrow for me 
.
I am very pleased with the dealership, they have been great at sorting this out for me. Fingers crossed that'll be the end of my troubles.
Thanks go to all you guys on this board for sharing your knowledge.
but also needed replaced (not too expensive). I have asked them to proceed with the repairs for both parts, they are going to do this tomorrow for me .I am very pleased with the dealership, they have been great at sorting this out for me. Fingers crossed that'll be the end of my troubles.
Thanks go to all you guys on this board for sharing your knowledge.
03-24-2009, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Phantom Mark' post='825460' date='Mar 24 2009, 11:32 AM
Never ceases to amaze me how little respect dealers give the customers of these premium cars, not like these are cheap bits of rubbish, KIA give better service than this ffs.
03-25-2009, 02:04 AM
#143
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Originally Posted by smarty156' post='825421' date='Mar 24 2009, 03:42 PM
Stephen - how did you get them to change the thermostat? What did you tell them exactly?
Reason I ask is I've been to 2 dealers and am being fobbed off. First one didn't really understand what I was on about and just glossed over it (was in for something else and I'd only just changed the EGR thermostat so left it). Just been to the second and the service guy was a complete rs. I asked what normal operating temp was and he said "Haven't a clue". Went out the back, came back and said the tech didn't know either but all BMW engines run between 95 and 100C. I said mine runs at 82 and I think the mpg is worse and the DPF is regenerating more. He then just fobbed me off and gave me the third degree! Told me the car will regenerate as often as it can after it's done 20,000 miles because it doesn't know when it will do it again (?). Then asked how I was measuring the mpg. Told him just using the OBC and he said you can't go by that as they're just a guide. I said I knew that but I was comparing the OBC reading when I first got the car to now. He just wasn't having any of it. Then asked what mpg I was getting and said it sounded fine (I got the feeling he would have told me that whatever mpg I said). I also told him it originally ran at 68C until I changed the EGR thermostat - he then said the problem must be I let air in the system! What a twat. This was at Stephen James in Ruxley - needless to say I'll never be returning there.
Even though he said the car should run at 95 to 100 and mine is at 82 he still didn't see it as a problem and said that anything over 75C would be fine and wouldn't affect fuel consumption.
I'm beginning to think I'll just give up on this but I want it sorted now out of principle - that's why I got a warranty.
Help!!!!!
Reason I ask is I've been to 2 dealers and am being fobbed off. First one didn't really understand what I was on about and just glossed over it (was in for something else and I'd only just changed the EGR thermostat so left it). Just been to the second and the service guy was a complete rs. I asked what normal operating temp was and he said "Haven't a clue". Went out the back, came back and said the tech didn't know either but all BMW engines run between 95 and 100C. I said mine runs at 82 and I think the mpg is worse and the DPF is regenerating more. He then just fobbed me off and gave me the third degree! Told me the car will regenerate as often as it can after it's done 20,000 miles because it doesn't know when it will do it again (?). Then asked how I was measuring the mpg. Told him just using the OBC and he said you can't go by that as they're just a guide. I said I knew that but I was comparing the OBC reading when I first got the car to now. He just wasn't having any of it. Then asked what mpg I was getting and said it sounded fine (I got the feeling he would have told me that whatever mpg I said). I also told him it originally ran at 68C until I changed the EGR thermostat - he then said the problem must be I let air in the system! What a twat. This was at Stephen James in Ruxley - needless to say I'll never be returning there.
Even though he said the car should run at 95 to 100 and mine is at 82 he still didn't see it as a problem and said that anything over 75C would be fine and wouldn't affect fuel consumption.
I'm beginning to think I'll just give up on this but I want it sorted now out of principle - that's why I got a warranty.
Help!!!!!
I use Specialist Cars BMW in Stevenage and have done since 2004
I have had a long list of problems with my current car so know the staff at the service desk quite well, it has been in several times previously for poor fuel consumption at the same time as other issues. The service desk, the techs and the service manager have always been very helpful but unable to solve the MPG problem.
I am always very calm and polite with the staff no matter how frustated I am with the damn car - this makes a huge difference.
My car had previoulsy attained good mpg and the techs were aware of this, when I read about the EGR thermostat and cool running issue I investigated and found my car to be running cool.
As I have the BMW insured warranty with a ?100 excess I bought the thermostat myself for ?22 and spent the 10 mins fitting it. It made quite a difference but still not up to temp so I popped in to the dealer mid afternoon when I knew it would be quiet and showed them the broken EGR thermostat, explaining whole thing and that I initially got the info from a BMW forum
One of the techs (paul I think) came and had a look at it and immediately agreed that cool running would mean poor MPG stating the car should ruN at 90-91c and was surprised at the failed EGR thermostat stating he had never had to change one but stated that a failed open thermostat would not show up on the diagnostics.
I mentioned that it was still not attaining full running temp and the main thermostat was probably also faulty, he agreed that this was probably correct as there is no other reason for the car to run cool so they agreed to order a new main thermostat and do the work under warranty.
My car also doing DPF regeneration every 400-450 miles
On collecting the car I was informed the tech had driven the car before and after to confirm the temp readings and was really pleased the problem had finally been solved with the car now reaching normal temp very quickly.
I was asked to run the car for a few tanks and to let them know how it was going.
The thermostat problem is clearly affecting a lot of cars with very few being resolved as most are undetected, I would suggest trying a different dealer or even Specialist Cars at Stevenage, speak to Jim at the service desk and he will know all about it.
Or get your dealer techs to contact Specialist Cars to confirm changing the thermostat cured the cool running on my car.
My MPG is now 37 with mixed short journeys compared to 27-28 before the thermostats were changed!!!
On the motorway it will now sit above 40mpg where it used to refuse to go above 30mpg.
Solving this problem will save countless wasted visits to dealers and a lot of frustration for owners and dealer service departments
Do you have a BMW or a third party warranty??
Not sure how you would get on if it is a third party warranty.
Please feel free to PM me and leave your phone number and I will give you a call if you need any more info
Stephen
03-25-2009, 02:41 AM
#145
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I'm the same boat for consumption and the mystery why some people get better economy on 04 530d auto.
I have a long time to warm up about 30 mins at ambient 10? degrees to get 80? engine. Most of the time before that it is in the 60?-70? range. It will go to about 85? at a standstill 35 mins. This rules out most of my journeys to reaching the an operating temperature.
Any feedback on how long with the new thermostats it takes to warm up at a given ambient temperature?
I have a long time to warm up about 30 mins at ambient 10? degrees to get 80? engine. Most of the time before that it is in the 60?-70? range. It will go to about 85? at a standstill 35 mins. This rules out most of my journeys to reaching the an operating temperature.
Any feedback on how long with the new thermostats it takes to warm up at a given ambient temperature?
03-25-2009, 02:58 AM
#146
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Originally Posted by jer' post='826114' date='Mar 25 2009, 10:41 AM
I'm the same boat for consumption and the mystery why some people get better economy on 04 530d auto.
I have a long time to warm up about 30 mins at ambient 10? degrees to get 80? engine. Most of the time before that it is in the 60?-70? range. It will go to about 85? at a standstill 35 mins. This rules out most of my journeys to reaching the an operating temperature.
Any feedback on how long with the new thermostats it takes to warm up at a given ambient temperature?
I have a long time to warm up about 30 mins at ambient 10? degrees to get 80? engine. Most of the time before that it is in the 60?-70? range. It will go to about 85? at a standstill 35 mins. This rules out most of my journeys to reaching the an operating temperature.
Any feedback on how long with the new thermostats it takes to warm up at a given ambient temperature?
Prior to changing them it reached 80c after 40 miles and would never hit 91c
Stephen
03-25-2009, 03:08 AM
#147
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Originally Posted by E60Sim' post='826113' date='Mar 25 2009, 11:39 AM
My engine is running at 84C - so that means the EGR is fine, but the main thermostat is broken?
The fuel consumption is great.
The fuel consumption is great.
15 minutes and chekc the EGR thermstat. IF it is ok you'll know that the main thermostat has to be looked at.
03-25-2009, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Stephen F' post='826105' date='Mar 25 2009, 11:04 AM
Hi,
I use Specialist Cars BMW in Stevenage and have done since 2004
I have had a long list of problems with my current car so know the staff at the service desk quite well, it has been in several times previously for poor fuel consumption at the same time as other issues. The service desk, the techs and the service manager have always been very helpful but unable to solve the MPG problem.
I am always very calm and polite with the staff no matter how frustated I am with the damn car - this makes a huge difference.
My car had previoulsy attained good mpg and the techs were aware of this, when I read about the EGR thermostat and cool running issue I investigated and found my car to be running cool.
As I have the BMW insured warranty with a ?100 excess I bought the thermostat myself for ?22 and spent the 10 mins fitting it. It made quite a difference but still not up to temp so I popped in to the dealer mid afternoon when I knew it would be quiet and showed them the broken EGR thermostat, explaining whole thing and that I initially got the info from a BMW forum
One of the techs (paul I think) came and had a look at it and immediately agreed that cool running would mean poor MPG stating the car should ruN at 90-91c and was surprised at the failed EGR thermostat stating he had never had to change one but stated that a failed open thermostat would not show up on the diagnostics.
I mentioned that it was still not attaining full running temp and the main thermostat was probably also faulty, he agreed that this was probably correct as there is no other reason for the car to run cool so they agreed to order a new main thermostat and do the work under warranty.
My car also doing DPF regeneration every 400-450 miles
On collecting the car I was informed the tech had driven the car before and after to confirm the temp readings and was really pleased the problem had finally been solved with the car now reaching normal temp very quickly.
I was asked to run the car for a few tanks and to let them know how it was going.
The thermostat problem is clearly affecting a lot of cars with very few being resolved as most are undetected, I would suggest trying a different dealer or even Specialist Cars at Stevenage, speak to Jim at the service desk and he will know all about it.
Or get your dealer techs to contact Specialist Cars to confirm changing the thermostat cured the cool running on my car.
My MPG is now 37 with mixed short journeys compared to 27-28 before the thermostats were changed!!!
On the motorway it will now sit above 40mpg where it used to refuse to go above 30mpg.
Solving this problem will save countless wasted visits to dealers and a lot of frustration for owners and dealer service departments
Do you have a BMW or a third party warranty??
Not sure how you would get on if it is a third party warranty.
Please feel free to PM me and leave your phone number and I will give you a call if you need any more info
Stephen
I use Specialist Cars BMW in Stevenage and have done since 2004
I have had a long list of problems with my current car so know the staff at the service desk quite well, it has been in several times previously for poor fuel consumption at the same time as other issues. The service desk, the techs and the service manager have always been very helpful but unable to solve the MPG problem.
I am always very calm and polite with the staff no matter how frustated I am with the damn car - this makes a huge difference.
My car had previoulsy attained good mpg and the techs were aware of this, when I read about the EGR thermostat and cool running issue I investigated and found my car to be running cool.
As I have the BMW insured warranty with a ?100 excess I bought the thermostat myself for ?22 and spent the 10 mins fitting it. It made quite a difference but still not up to temp so I popped in to the dealer mid afternoon when I knew it would be quiet and showed them the broken EGR thermostat, explaining whole thing and that I initially got the info from a BMW forum
One of the techs (paul I think) came and had a look at it and immediately agreed that cool running would mean poor MPG stating the car should ruN at 90-91c and was surprised at the failed EGR thermostat stating he had never had to change one but stated that a failed open thermostat would not show up on the diagnostics.
I mentioned that it was still not attaining full running temp and the main thermostat was probably also faulty, he agreed that this was probably correct as there is no other reason for the car to run cool so they agreed to order a new main thermostat and do the work under warranty.
My car also doing DPF regeneration every 400-450 miles
On collecting the car I was informed the tech had driven the car before and after to confirm the temp readings and was really pleased the problem had finally been solved with the car now reaching normal temp very quickly.
I was asked to run the car for a few tanks and to let them know how it was going.
The thermostat problem is clearly affecting a lot of cars with very few being resolved as most are undetected, I would suggest trying a different dealer or even Specialist Cars at Stevenage, speak to Jim at the service desk and he will know all about it.
Or get your dealer techs to contact Specialist Cars to confirm changing the thermostat cured the cool running on my car.
My MPG is now 37 with mixed short journeys compared to 27-28 before the thermostats were changed!!!
On the motorway it will now sit above 40mpg where it used to refuse to go above 30mpg.
Solving this problem will save countless wasted visits to dealers and a lot of frustration for owners and dealer service departments
Do you have a BMW or a third party warranty??
Not sure how you would get on if it is a third party warranty.
Please feel free to PM me and leave your phone number and I will give you a call if you need any more info
Stephen
The whole reason I started this DIY/thread is because of the poor MPG I had and the lack of knowledge at some dealers. Without a normal temp gauge many drivers/dealer simply don't know
the car is running cool because (apart from higher MPG) there is nothing to indicate a problem.
Most dealers will state higher MPG to be normal and say that factory MPG figures are way to positive. Low operating temps will be written off as only logical with low ambient temps and highly efficient diesel engines (thus low residual heat).
I do appreciate my dealer, they were willing to help and changed the main stat. This improved the situation a bit but still the enige didn't reach 91C. When I mentioned the EGR stat they were reluctant to swap this so I did it myself (since it is low cost, low risk to do so).
And PRESTO car was running at normal temp and way better MPG.
So yeah, be cool and convince the dealer in a calm matter. If they keep on being ignorant, contact another dealer... (or give tham a copy of this thread...).
03-25-2009, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Stephen F' post='826105' date='Mar 25 2009, 10:04 AM
Hi,
I use Specialist Cars BMW in Stevenage and have done since 2004
I have had a long list of problems with my current car so know the staff at the service desk quite well, it has been in several times previously for poor fuel consumption at the same time as other issues. The service desk, the techs and the service manager have always been very helpful but unable to solve the MPG problem.
I am always very calm and polite with the staff no matter how frustated I am with the damn car - this makes a huge difference.
My car had previoulsy attained good mpg and the techs were aware of this, when I read about the EGR thermostat and cool running issue I investigated and found my car to be running cool.
As I have the BMW insured warranty with a ?100 excess I bought the thermostat myself for ?22 and spent the 10 mins fitting it. It made quite a difference but still not up to temp so I popped in to the dealer mid afternoon when I knew it would be quiet and showed them the broken EGR thermostat, explaining whole thing and that I initially got the info from a BMW forum
One of the techs (paul I think) came and had a look at it and immediately agreed that cool running would mean poor MPG stating the car should ruN at 90-91c and was surprised at the failed EGR thermostat stating he had never had to change one but stated that a failed open thermostat would not show up on the diagnostics.
I mentioned that it was still not attaining full running temp and the main thermostat was probably also faulty, he agreed that this was probably correct as there is no other reason for the car to run cool so they agreed to order a new main thermostat and do the work under warranty.
My car also doing DPF regeneration every 400-450 miles
On collecting the car I was informed the tech had driven the car before and after to confirm the temp readings and was really pleased the problem had finally been solved with the car now reaching normal temp very quickly.
I was asked to run the car for a few tanks and to let them know how it was going.
The thermostat problem is clearly affecting a lot of cars with very few being resolved as most are undetected, I would suggest trying a different dealer or even Specialist Cars at Stevenage, speak to Jim at the service desk and he will know all about it.
Or get your dealer techs to contact Specialist Cars to confirm changing the thermostat cured the cool running on my car.
My MPG is now 37 with mixed short journeys compared to 27-28 before the thermostats were changed!!!
On the motorway it will now sit above 40mpg where it used to refuse to go above 30mpg.
Solving this problem will save countless wasted visits to dealers and a lot of frustration for owners and dealer service departments
Do you have a BMW or a third party warranty??
Not sure how you would get on if it is a third party warranty.
Please feel free to PM me and leave your phone number and I will give you a call if you need any more info
Stephen
I use Specialist Cars BMW in Stevenage and have done since 2004
I have had a long list of problems with my current car so know the staff at the service desk quite well, it has been in several times previously for poor fuel consumption at the same time as other issues. The service desk, the techs and the service manager have always been very helpful but unable to solve the MPG problem.
I am always very calm and polite with the staff no matter how frustated I am with the damn car - this makes a huge difference.
My car had previoulsy attained good mpg and the techs were aware of this, when I read about the EGR thermostat and cool running issue I investigated and found my car to be running cool.
As I have the BMW insured warranty with a ?100 excess I bought the thermostat myself for ?22 and spent the 10 mins fitting it. It made quite a difference but still not up to temp so I popped in to the dealer mid afternoon when I knew it would be quiet and showed them the broken EGR thermostat, explaining whole thing and that I initially got the info from a BMW forum
One of the techs (paul I think) came and had a look at it and immediately agreed that cool running would mean poor MPG stating the car should ruN at 90-91c and was surprised at the failed EGR thermostat stating he had never had to change one but stated that a failed open thermostat would not show up on the diagnostics.
I mentioned that it was still not attaining full running temp and the main thermostat was probably also faulty, he agreed that this was probably correct as there is no other reason for the car to run cool so they agreed to order a new main thermostat and do the work under warranty.
My car also doing DPF regeneration every 400-450 miles
On collecting the car I was informed the tech had driven the car before and after to confirm the temp readings and was really pleased the problem had finally been solved with the car now reaching normal temp very quickly.
I was asked to run the car for a few tanks and to let them know how it was going.
The thermostat problem is clearly affecting a lot of cars with very few being resolved as most are undetected, I would suggest trying a different dealer or even Specialist Cars at Stevenage, speak to Jim at the service desk and he will know all about it.
Or get your dealer techs to contact Specialist Cars to confirm changing the thermostat cured the cool running on my car.
My MPG is now 37 with mixed short journeys compared to 27-28 before the thermostats were changed!!!
On the motorway it will now sit above 40mpg where it used to refuse to go above 30mpg.
Solving this problem will save countless wasted visits to dealers and a lot of frustration for owners and dealer service departments
Do you have a BMW or a third party warranty??
Not sure how you would get on if it is a third party warranty.
Please feel free to PM me and leave your phone number and I will give you a call if you need any more info
Stephen
Thanks Stephen. I live in Kent but I do travel to Peterborough once or twice a month. I could go a bit out of my way and go via Stevenage as long as they could give me a courtesy car.
I do have the BMW insured warranty with ?100 XS the same as you so sounds like it wouldn't be a problem to get it changed under warranty.
I'm back in Peterborough on 9th April so I might phone them and see if they can do it. A lot easier if the dealer already knows of the issue.
This morning my car only got to about 78 after 11 miles and 20 minutes of driving. That's about 10 mins on a motorway and 10 mins in queuing traffic.
Thanks again for the info and I'll let you know how I get on.
03-25-2009, 09:25 AM
#150
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Thank to Mini Me for starting this thread, I now have my car back with the new main stat fitted. My carnow reaches operating temp of 90-91 very quickly, and from what i have seen so far the mpg have drastically improved. I will have a clearer idea once I have run it to work and back a couple of times. Thats a beer and a dram I owe you Mini Me, give me a shout if you are ever in Scotland.