dude_in_germany

Powerwise the td?s are catching up, even beating some gas engines already. For me, it is a question of driving behavior or driving characteristics. I just like the driving with a gas engine better, the diesel comes at low rpm?s, suddenly kicks the turbo in and pushes you forward, thats good, but at the latest when you reach 4000 rpms the nextgeer has to come, stick or automatic, no more power. I like better the power coming later, at higher rpm?s just riding each gear with more power as you go up.

On paper the diesels always look good, the first meters it will go, but you catch up fast at higher rpm?s as you reach them. And in terms of going fast yes, but with higher rpms it looses power and the last km/h?s just take forever!

Nothing for me , but I can understand anybody who likes this power up from the beginning. You need lots of HP to in a gas engine to compensate those first couple of meters!

colejl

I'm led to believe that the 535d keeps going strong up to 5,000rpm!

I'm surprised this dual-sequential turbo technique hasn't been used more widely...?

BigGrey

This is sounding like the 2 stroke vs 4 stroke motocross engine history.
Now there are almost only 4 stroke engines and petrol engines must evolve or the same will happen.
Diesels are much more user friendly and the "turbo kick-in only at 2000" and "tubo lag" and so forth are gone in the last generations of engines.
And there is the longivity issues too: a engine that revs avg at 2000 rpm tend to last longer than one that has a 3500 avg...
The idle diesel engine bothers me too. In the Honda Accord 2.2 diesel it is gone. You almost can't tell it is a diesel neither inside nor outside.
Time will tell...

dude_in_germany

@ colejl

the max. torque is at 2000 rpm, only for about 1000 rpms, diesel-alike, then goes rapidly down, as like any other diesel. At 5000 rpm its got "only" around 370 Nm. There is no way around it, you lose power and torque as you go up. Its the characteristic of a self igniting engine.

@ BigGrey

In my opinion this is one of the greatest rumors, if the revs avg at 2000 with a diesel thats about 45-50% of what you can do, same as a gas engine rev 3500, half of what it can do. Everytime I see the diesel fraction trying to catch speed on the Bahn you just drive on by, no big deal.

You need Power AND revolutions, that makes you fast, having little torque but being able to build it up at higher rpm -> racing cars -> no diesels

But dont get me wrong, the modern diesels are ok, its just not the same as driving a gas engine.

SKK

Absolutely! Some people can 'live' with, others can't... Personally, I love the meaty sound Slight vibration at idle is annoying but I don't tend to be stationary too long

When you're cruising over 45mph you definitely can't tell it's a diesel... (Apart from the 50mpg )

I want a 535d next but I must admit the 540i interested me until I saw the residuals! (540i is the worst!!!)
[/quote]

As I mainly did the test on B roads, I was accelerating reasonably hard and braking often. Never really cruised. The rough engine noise was therefore more in your face. If your cruising then your right in that it might be quieter and the difference may not be apparent.

BigGrey

Even now, 2 stroke Karts or Motocross bikes or even 500 Moto GPs are much more live and fun to drive.
But the industry business interests, enviroment and user friendlyness, together with technology evolution have been superior and dictated the current rules...

The fact is that using the current petrol and diesel technologies, there are much more efficient diesel engines than petrol ones and the performance losses in the diesel areas are minimal unless at the top of the performance cars (sports ones).

I think that the question that origins this post and most of these discussions is:

If you can get a car that: has the same or better performance for the same price and is more user friendly with much less fuel consumption and better (or same) enviromental impact, why not get it?
The "rational" answers are vanishing with each new engine release. And that is good for all!

But then who said we are talking about rational choices?

Btw: a friend of mine just exchanged his Audi S3 for a 120d. Believe me he is performance oriented! And he had no budget restrictions. He just felt it was more than enough. Imagine with the new 200hp 2.0d BMW engine ;-)

See you!

dude_in_germany

...
If you can get a car that: has the same or better performance for the same price and is more user friendly with much less fuel consumption and better (or same) enviromental impact, why not get it?

[/quote]


Exactly, I agree. There would be only one reason NOT to, and thats what I am trying to say: Do not switch from gas to diesel if you love your driving b] characteristics[[/b]. I know lots of people who are going gas -> diesel => GAS

Diesels are great cars, great engines, all of that, but its just not like driving a gas engine. Maybe only for me though. Again, no offense and nothing bad about diesels!

Ray Hull

But, did you try FOLLOWING one? :thumbsdown:

Ray Hull

535D Sport

How fast do you think the new Audi Le Mans car is going to be ? Which just happens to be a V12 twin turbo diesel with over 650 bhp.

dude_in_germany

ghee guys, all I am saying is I can understand anybody going for gas engines. Maybe we have them more than where you live. Everybody is free to chosse whatever car they want.

No I was not thinking about Le Mans nor about any raceing car with gas.