Jaguar XF SC vs. BMW 535i - Undecided
08-07-2008, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by baron95' post='641477' date='Aug 7 2008, 03:03 AM
For $62K??!!?? Seriously folks. Price a 535 or 550 with 20"wheels and 285-wide tires in theback, navigation system, upgraded audio, all the bells and whistles of the XF supercharged (you can't even get many of them on the 5-series).
Then price the Dinan mods to take it to 420HP and 400+ ftlbs.
Where will you be? $75K? And you still have a car that is (at least where I live) a dime a dozen, particularly, since, from a distance, many people can't even tell a 335 from a 535 without a double take.
I for one am only interested in leasing for as short a period as I can get. So I could care less about resale value, long term reliability, etc. Jaguar finance is assuming all those risks, and since they are leasing with slightly higher residuals than the 5-series, it becomes very attractive.
My only reservation is rear seat room and the really thin front tire sidewall. I wish they were 45-series at least.
Then price the Dinan mods to take it to 420HP and 400+ ftlbs.
Where will you be? $75K? And you still have a car that is (at least where I live) a dime a dozen, particularly, since, from a distance, many people can't even tell a 335 from a 535 without a double take.
I for one am only interested in leasing for as short a period as I can get. So I could care less about resale value, long term reliability, etc. Jaguar finance is assuming all those risks, and since they are leasing with slightly higher residuals than the 5-series, it becomes very attractive.
My only reservation is rear seat room and the really thin front tire sidewall. I wish they were 45-series at least.
Like someone else said... to each his own. The XF looks nice, but when you compare the history of BMW and Jag there simply is no comparison. BMW is a pure driver's car. Plus, I guarantee you have some (hopefully not major) reliability issues with the Jag. I certainly am not wishing that on you, but the possibility of this is high. Good luck.
08-07-2008, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by baron95' post='641477' date='Aug 7 2008, 02:03 AM
For $62K??!!?? Seriously folks. Price a 535 or 550 with 20"wheels and 285-wide tires in theback, navigation system, upgraded audio, all the bells and whistles of the XF supercharged (you can't even get many of them on the 5-series).
Then price the Dinan mods to take it to 420HP and 400+ ftlbs.
Where will you be? $75K? And you still have a car that is (at least where I live) a dime a dozen, particularly, since, from a distance, many people can't even tell a 335 from a 535 without a double take.
I for one am only interested in leasing for as short a period as I can get. So I could care less about resale value, long term reliability, etc. Jaguar finance is assuming all those risks, and since they are leasing with slightly higher residuals than the 5-series, it becomes very attractive.
My only reservation is rear seat room and the really thin front tire sidewall. I wish they were 45-series at least.
Then price the Dinan mods to take it to 420HP and 400+ ftlbs.
Where will you be? $75K? And you still have a car that is (at least where I live) a dime a dozen, particularly, since, from a distance, many people can't even tell a 335 from a 535 without a double take.
I for one am only interested in leasing for as short a period as I can get. So I could care less about resale value, long term reliability, etc. Jaguar finance is assuming all those risks, and since they are leasing with slightly higher residuals than the 5-series, it becomes very attractive.
My only reservation is rear seat room and the really thin front tire sidewall. I wish they were 45-series at least.
Have you tried building a Jag on the site? What option does it have? All I know is the supercharged one is 62k stock, which would be a loaded 535i. Also, you're paying for an award-winning and very efficient engine. The L6 puts out the same numbers as the XF with two fewer cylinders and better fuel economy. Not to mention the front of an XF looks like a Buick. The only option in "Options" was active cruise control and the Bimmers do have that. I still see the 535 a better buy than an XF, and it isn't just because the Jag's slightly less reliable. http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2008-j-d-po...y-study/964226/
08-07-2008, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by E60714' post='641706' date='Aug 7 2008, 11:50 AM
Umm, a 535i with only the things that you need would be about 58k. Comfort Access, sat. nav. and steptronic, you don't need a premium sound system. ....
I love this... "with only the things that you need" ?! You "need" CA? You "need" Nav? I argue that you can get a new 535i with only the things that you "need" for about $53K. I skipped the CA and the Nav. I have never had either one, so I won't miss either one. Nav would be nice at times, but the CA is not worth it IMO.
I am not trying to start anything here, just stating my opinion. I would choose the 535i over the XF without hesitation.
08-07-2008, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jmsod' post='641575' date='Aug 7 2008, 06:05 AM
but when you compare the history of BMW and Jag there simply is no comparison.
History is one thing that Jaguar can readily compare with just about any manufacturer. Jaguar can trace its history back to 1922, it has a strong legacy in motorsport and it has produced some of the most beautiful cars ever to grace the roads. Its history as a manufacturer is indeed comparable with BMW.
08-07-2008, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jmsod' post='641724' date='Aug 7 2008, 11:05 AM
I love this... "with only the things that you need" ?! You "need" CA? You "need" Nav? I argue that you can get a new 535i with only the things that you "need" for about $53K. I skipped the CA and the Nav. I have never had either one, so I won't miss either one. Nav would be nice at times, but the CA is not worth it IMO.
I am not trying to start anything here, just stating my opinion. I would choose the 535i over the XF without hesitation.
I am not trying to start anything here, just stating my opinion. I would choose the 535i over the XF without hesitation.
I think I should reword what I said and even then I realize CA shouldn't be included. They should be referred to as things with utility. So yeah, a bare-bones BMW I could still live with. CA, I could use google maps instead of sat nav., heated seats aren't a necessity, just turn the heat way up for a bit. But still, even with both models fully loaded and regardless of the price, I still think BMWs edge out the Jag XF. I like the XJs and the XK, but this XF I'm just not feeling.
08-25-2008, 03:49 PM
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I think it is a interesting choice between the 535 and the XF. I don't think either is a clear run away winner.
As I said before, I am only considering the XF Supercharged. As things stand today for a similarly equipped vehicle, around $62K, the BMW has 300HP/300lbs/18"wheels. The Jag has 420HP/413lbs/20"wheels/CATS adaptive suspension. Both have the same transmission and are within 200lbs of each other. The Jag would blow the 535 dynamically.
In addition, I think the 535 engine at 100HP/litter is already close to the tunnable limit vis a vis reliability. Want proof? On the new 7 series, the 4.4V8 twin-turbo is running only slightly more (402-407HP) which is about 90HP/liter. So BMW is already pushing the boost on the 535.
The Jag should be much more tunnable to extract 480-500HP. However we all know there will always be many more mods for the 535 than any jag.
I think these are cool competitive cars and we are all better off having both on the market.
As I said before, I am only considering the XF Supercharged. As things stand today for a similarly equipped vehicle, around $62K, the BMW has 300HP/300lbs/18"wheels. The Jag has 420HP/413lbs/20"wheels/CATS adaptive suspension. Both have the same transmission and are within 200lbs of each other. The Jag would blow the 535 dynamically.
In addition, I think the 535 engine at 100HP/litter is already close to the tunnable limit vis a vis reliability. Want proof? On the new 7 series, the 4.4V8 twin-turbo is running only slightly more (402-407HP) which is about 90HP/liter. So BMW is already pushing the boost on the 535.
The Jag should be much more tunnable to extract 480-500HP. However we all know there will always be many more mods for the 535 than any jag.
I think these are cool competitive cars and we are all better off having both on the market.
08-25-2008, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by baron95' post='654142' date='Aug 25 2008, 04:49 PM
I think it is a interesting choice between the 535 and the XF. I don't think either is a clear run away winner.
As I said before, I am only considering the XF Supercharged. As things stand today for a similarly equipped vehicle, around $62K, the BMW has 300HP/300lbs/18"wheels. The Jag has 420HP/413lbs/20"wheels/CATS adaptive suspension. Both have the same transmission and are within 200lbs of each other. The Jag would blow the 535 dynamically.
In addition, I think the 535 engine at 100HP/litter is already close to the tunnable limit vis a vis reliability. Want proof? On the new 7 series, the 4.4V8 twin-turbo is running only slightly more (402-407HP) which is about 90HP/liter. So BMW is already pushing the boost on the 535.
The Jag should be much more tunnable to extract 480-500HP. However we all know there will always be many more mods for the 535 than any jag.
I think these are cool competitive cars and we are all better off having both on the market.
As I said before, I am only considering the XF Supercharged. As things stand today for a similarly equipped vehicle, around $62K, the BMW has 300HP/300lbs/18"wheels. The Jag has 420HP/413lbs/20"wheels/CATS adaptive suspension. Both have the same transmission and are within 200lbs of each other. The Jag would blow the 535 dynamically.
In addition, I think the 535 engine at 100HP/litter is already close to the tunnable limit vis a vis reliability. Want proof? On the new 7 series, the 4.4V8 twin-turbo is running only slightly more (402-407HP) which is about 90HP/liter. So BMW is already pushing the boost on the 535.
The Jag should be much more tunnable to extract 480-500HP. However we all know there will always be many more mods for the 535 than any jag.
I think these are cool competitive cars and we are all better off having both on the market.
08-25-2008, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jmsod' post='641575' date='Aug 7 2008, 08:05 AM
Like someone else said... to each his own. The XF looks nice, but when you compare the history of BMW and Jag there simply is no comparison. BMW is a pure driver's car. Plus, I guarantee you have some (hopefully not major) reliability issues with the Jag. I certainly am not wishing that on you, but the possibility of this is high. Good luck.
http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=59745&hl=2000
08-26-2008, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by baron95' post='654142' date='Aug 25 2008, 07:49 PM
I think it is a interesting choice between the 535 and the XF. I don't think either is a clear run away winner.
As I said before, I am only considering the XF Supercharged. As things stand today for a similarly equipped vehicle, around $62K, the BMW has 300HP/300lbs/18"wheels. The Jag has 420HP/413lbs/20"wheels/CATS adaptive suspension. Both have the same transmission and are within 200lbs of each other. The Jag would blow the 535 dynamically.
In addition, I think the 535 engine at 100HP/litter is already close to the tunnable limit vis a vis reliability. Want proof? On the new 7 series, the 4.4V8 twin-turbo is running only slightly more (402-407HP) which is about 90HP/liter. So BMW is already pushing the boost on the 535.
The Jag should be much more tunnable to extract 480-500HP. However we all know there will always be many more mods for the 535 than any jag.
I think these are cool competitive cars and we are all better off having both on the market.
As I said before, I am only considering the XF Supercharged. As things stand today for a similarly equipped vehicle, around $62K, the BMW has 300HP/300lbs/18"wheels. The Jag has 420HP/413lbs/20"wheels/CATS adaptive suspension. Both have the same transmission and are within 200lbs of each other. The Jag would blow the 535 dynamically.
In addition, I think the 535 engine at 100HP/litter is already close to the tunnable limit vis a vis reliability. Want proof? On the new 7 series, the 4.4V8 twin-turbo is running only slightly more (402-407HP) which is about 90HP/liter. So BMW is already pushing the boost on the 535.
The Jag should be much more tunnable to extract 480-500HP. However we all know there will always be many more mods for the 535 than any jag.
I think these are cool competitive cars and we are all better off having both on the market.
08-27-2008, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by pennetta' post='654544' date='Aug 26 2008, 09:41 AM
The 535 is not near its tuneable limits. Stock its at 100 HP/Liter, with Dinan stage 2 its at 128 HP/Liter. Other premium Turbo cars like the 911 Turbo are at 133 HP/Liter so I would say that would be closer to the reliable design limits. The 535's limiting factor is its long crankshaft, 50% longer than the BMW 4.4 Turbo and 100% longer than the 911 Turbo.
Are they sandbagging the HP of the larger V8 turbo? As I said before, if the F01 were availale in time for my lease expiration, I'd get that car (assuming it dives as well as I expect).