How many Sport package 5's do you see on road?
04-20-2009, 12:18 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by boy535i' post='853035' date='Apr 20 2009, 01:02 PM
Not necessarily true. ARS is an important factor but I doubt it is the main factor as it mainly addresses ROLL but does not have a major influence on driving feel, steering or handling. SP cars (both 5 and 7 series) also FEEL (steering and road) much more different on straights and curves than non-SP cars.
In the US 5 AND 7 series RWD vehicle sport packages DO in fact have a different suspension setup than their non-sport counterparts (part numbers are different). The sport package (in addition to ARS .. which was std. in ALL 2002-2008 7-series vehicle variants) had slightly stiffer springs and thicker rear sway bars (i.e. sport suspension) than their non-sport versions. The idea was to make the car ride "firm" and improve "feel" WITHOUT making it "harsh" as comfort is high on the priority list of the demographic that shop this car. However, due to size of these vehicles it was not possible to control ROLL without a much stiffer suspensions setup (which was not an option for reason stated).
ENTER ARS. ARS works w IN CONJUNCTION with the SPORT SUSPENSION minimizing ROLL ensuring the overall ride is both smooth AND firm at the same time. The suspension ALSO works in minimizing (i.e. damping) rapid changes to the chassis during transitions in effect AIDING the ARS system (which the ARS in itself can't prevent). This is why ARS WITH THE SPORT SUSPENSION is the combination of choice for BMW. Even the 7-series folks comment that though ARS is available in the non-sport model .. it's effectiveness is much more prevalent in the sport model (due the optional suspension setup).
In the US 5 AND 7 series RWD vehicle sport packages DO in fact have a different suspension setup than their non-sport counterparts (part numbers are different). The sport package (in addition to ARS .. which was std. in ALL 2002-2008 7-series vehicle variants) had slightly stiffer springs and thicker rear sway bars (i.e. sport suspension) than their non-sport versions. The idea was to make the car ride "firm" and improve "feel" WITHOUT making it "harsh" as comfort is high on the priority list of the demographic that shop this car. However, due to size of these vehicles it was not possible to control ROLL without a much stiffer suspensions setup (which was not an option for reason stated).
ENTER ARS. ARS works w IN CONJUNCTION with the SPORT SUSPENSION minimizing ROLL ensuring the overall ride is both smooth AND firm at the same time. The suspension ALSO works in minimizing (i.e. damping) rapid changes to the chassis during transitions in effect AIDING the ARS system (which the ARS in itself can't prevent). This is why ARS WITH THE SPORT SUSPENSION is the combination of choice for BMW. Even the 7-series folks comment that though ARS is available in the non-sport model .. it's effectiveness is much more prevalent in the sport model (due the optional suspension setup).
04-20-2009, 12:24 PM
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Here in calgary, alberta, canada i really only ever see what appears to be the same people.
Theres a black 545i sport package and a silver 545i sport package, and of course my own.
Theres a black 545i sport package and a silver 545i sport package, and of course my own.
04-20-2009, 01:17 PM
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I still can't see how .... other than the fact that less roll does affect other aspects of driving ... but ARS is primarily for ROLL stabilization ONLY.
Originally Posted by swajames' post='853050' date='Apr 20 2009, 03:18 PM
Your thicker roll bar comment is also odd given that for the E60 (in the US) there were only ever two options - the ARS system, or the standard non-Sport roll bar. On the E60, there's no special thicker "sport" roll bar (other than on M-Sport models, which in the US isn't available without ARS in any event making the point somewhat moot).
04-20-2009, 01:23 PM
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My Ride: 2005 545i Sports, Premium and dynamic packages
Not that many in Florida, I would say 2-3 out of 10 are sports. Sports vs. non-sports, I could only drive sports and for the last 9 years I have only driven sports...there is nothing better than making a sharp turn and having your car hugging the corner besides I do not mind the rough ride, I actually enjoy feeling the road! Just my preference...
04-20-2009, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by unknown' post='852828' date='Apr 20 2009, 12:52 PM
no worries mate... im bringing my black magic marker this sat, ill fix it up real nice! 
Was it you that marked up that white Lambo ?!?!
I haven't seen many sport e60s (sans chrome) but lots of 525 and 528s in this end of NJ 1 in 25 I'd guess...lol. I think 2 out of the 3 550s where my wife works have the sport pack though. In my office they only have Lexus.
04-20-2009, 02:11 PM
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My Ride: 2008 Porsche 911 Carrera S Convertible. Midnight Blue, 6 Speed.Retired - 2007 997 Carrera S, Midnight Blue, Grey leather, premium audioRetired - 2007 550i, Monaco Blue over Beige, Navigation, Logic 7, Cold Weather Pack, Comfort Access, Sport Package
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Originally Posted by boy535i' post='853140' date='Apr 20 2009, 02:17 PM
I agree ... and that is precisely what I said as well .. but softer implying that it will take a STIFFER spring rate to achieve the same result (ROLL minimization) as an ARS setup .... which if implemented will compromise ride quality. It is clear (at least in a 7-series non-SP and SP .... both equipped with ARS) that the one with the SP is more effective (I could clearly see more roll on the non-SP in the same turns). This is why the 5-series can match the dynamics of its smaller/nimbler 3-series brethren YET maintaining a more supple ride.
Yes there will be a slight sharpening of steering response (NOT because ARS is doing anything to the steering directly) but because the CONTACT patch of the car is improved on turn in as the ARS counteracts centrifugal force (keeping the inside line of the turn grounded). During normal driving it doesn't really affect steering much. However the steering "feel" and "response" in a sport suspension (even during slow/straight driving) setup is definitely noticeable .. !
Yes there will be a slight sharpening of steering response (NOT because ARS is doing anything to the steering directly) but because the CONTACT patch of the car is improved on turn in as the ARS counteracts centrifugal force (keeping the inside line of the turn grounded). During normal driving it doesn't really affect steering much. However the steering "feel" and "response" in a sport suspension (even during slow/straight driving) setup is definitely noticeable .. !
My primary point in posting, however, was to comment on an earlier post (not from you) that ARS is not the key component that delivers most value in the sport package on the E60. I maintain that it is. Take ARS out of the equation and what you would be left with would be closer to the handling of, say, an Infiniti. It is ARS that elevates the handling on a sport equipped E60 to the next level and creates the incredible ride/handling balance.
04-20-2009, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='853194' date='Apr 20 2009, 06:11 PM
I think we're on the same page. I was only responding to the point that the Sport equipped E60's were stiffer springed. As I said, I'm not sure that's the case but I'm largely basing on anecdotal evidence from other forum members posts. And it is indeed the geometry improvements that ARS delivers that enhance steering feel, response and turn in.
My primary point in posting, however, was to comment on an earlier post (not from you) that ARS is not the key component that delivers most value in the sport package on the E60. I maintain that it is. Take ARS out of the equation and what you would be left with would be closer to the handling of, say, an Infiniti. It is ARS that elevates the handling on a sport equipped E60 to the next level and creates the incredible ride/handling balance.
My primary point in posting, however, was to comment on an earlier post (not from you) that ARS is not the key component that delivers most value in the sport package on the E60. I maintain that it is. Take ARS out of the equation and what you would be left with would be closer to the handling of, say, an Infiniti. It is ARS that elevates the handling on a sport equipped E60 to the next level and creates the incredible ride/handling balance.
My 550 Sport, while stiff, has a ton more suspension compliance than my M45 did and the suspension is even more responsive. Truly a remarkable combination of ride and handling that Infiniti just could not touch.
04-20-2009, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='853194' date='Apr 20 2009, 05:11 PM
I think we're on the same page. I was only responding to the point that the Sport equipped E60's were stiffer springed. As I said, I'm not sure that's the case but I'm largely basing on anecdotal evidence from other forum members posts. And it is indeed the geometry improvements that ARS delivers that enhance steering feel, response and turn in.
My primary point in posting, however, was to comment on an earlier post (not from you) that ARS is not the key component that delivers most value in the sport package on the E60. I maintain that it is. Take ARS out of the equation and what you would be left with would be closer to the handling of, say, an Infiniti. It is ARS that elevates the handling on a sport equipped E60 to the next level and creates the incredible ride/handling balance.
My primary point in posting, however, was to comment on an earlier post (not from you) that ARS is not the key component that delivers most value in the sport package on the E60. I maintain that it is. Take ARS out of the equation and what you would be left with would be closer to the handling of, say, an Infiniti. It is ARS that elevates the handling on a sport equipped E60 to the next level and creates the incredible ride/handling balance.
