god damn uro parts coolant transfer pipe :(
07-26-2013, 08:42 AM
#51
Members
Senior Members
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 441
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
My Ride: 545i sport
Model Year: 2004
My suggestion to OP: Definitely replace all chain guides, both sides while you have it this far apart. There is a history of guide failure on BMW V8 engines. Go ahead and pull the heads. While you have the heads off, clean the secondary air ports, check the valve guides for excess wear and definitely replace the valve stem seals.
07-27-2013, 01:59 AM
#52
New Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Manchester, England, UK
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: e60 545i, e46 330i
My suggestion to OP: Definitely replace all chain guides, both sides while you have it this far apart. There is a history of guide failure on BMW V8 engines. Go ahead and pull the heads. While you have the heads off, clean the secondary air ports, check the valve guides for excess wear and definitely replace the valve stem seals.
It's just that I don't understand how to make sure everything is set right, but yes, that's what I'm going to do.
I don't think removing the heads will make clearing the secondary air ports any easier though will it. Because of the angle of the ports, the only way to drill them out is to remove the valves and everything, which is certainly getting more intricate than I want to get... I should be able to have a good look though, and at least clear the back pipe easily.
I'll order the cam locking tools etc. and do some reading on the procedure.
cheers!
07-27-2013, 05:24 AM
#53
New Members
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NH
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2003 540iA M Sport
carl0s,
I've been following your thread for a while...Great work so far.
Check out this video from All German Auto.
They make a kit that makes cleaning the secondary air ports a breeze. Might be something to look into.
edit:
If you take the heads off then you could probably do it the same way without having to buy the kit.
Hope this helps.
JP
I've been following your thread for a while...Great work so far.
Check out this video from All German Auto.
They make a kit that makes cleaning the secondary air ports a breeze. Might be something to look into.
edit:
If you take the heads off then you could probably do it the same way without having to buy the kit.
Hope this helps.
JP
Last edited by jeremyp; 07-27-2013 at 05:26 AM.
07-27-2013, 05:28 AM
#54
Members
Senior Members
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 441
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
My Ride: 545i sport
Model Year: 2004
You have to remove spring keepers and valve springs to replace stem seals. So, removing the valves is the next logical and easy step. Don't even think about not replacing the stem seals. If you buy the cam setting tools, and you want recoup some of your investment, I will buy them from you. I have to replace my stem seals in near future. You can do the work based on how far you have gotten so far.
07-27-2013, 05:56 AM
#55
New Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Manchester, England, UK
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: e60 545i, e46 330i
Thanks for the positive encouragement.
Jeremy: I have seen that kit. In fact I ordered these two things last week:
6mm Thread 20mm Diameter Steel Wire Tube Brush Cleaning Tool | eBay
Flexible Drill Extension Power Shaft Chuck Key 51" | eBay
I'll see about TIG'ing them together. I already have the drill flexi-extension, and have removed the chuck and casing. It looks good.
DavidF: Thanks. You're right, I should just get on with it. I want to learn as much as poss so I might as well just have a go. It's just all the things that I could end up not doing quite right, basically cam/vanos/etc. timing, but I'll try to do it right
I have ordered the cam locking plates. I went for the basic set, rather than the larger set that includes crank-fixture and 60-degreee torque-to-yield gauge. I'm sure I can get the crank bolt done up properly without that bit. I went for this kit: Sealey Petrol Engine Setting/locking Kit - Bmw N62/n62tu V8, N73 V12 - Chain Drive VSE6166 from
Just looking around for a good deal on OEM-like gaskets. (multi layer steel with the blue sealant).
Jeremy: I have seen that kit. In fact I ordered these two things last week:
6mm Thread 20mm Diameter Steel Wire Tube Brush Cleaning Tool | eBay
Flexible Drill Extension Power Shaft Chuck Key 51" | eBay
I'll see about TIG'ing them together. I already have the drill flexi-extension, and have removed the chuck and casing. It looks good.
DavidF: Thanks. You're right, I should just get on with it. I want to learn as much as poss so I might as well just have a go. It's just all the things that I could end up not doing quite right, basically cam/vanos/etc. timing, but I'll try to do it right
I have ordered the cam locking plates. I went for the basic set, rather than the larger set that includes crank-fixture and 60-degreee torque-to-yield gauge. I'm sure I can get the crank bolt done up properly without that bit. I went for this kit: Sealey Petrol Engine Setting/locking Kit - Bmw N62/n62tu V8, N73 V12 - Chain Drive VSE6166 from
Just looking around for a good deal on OEM-like gaskets. (multi layer steel with the blue sealant).
07-27-2013, 06:01 AM
#56
New Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Manchester, England, UK
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: e60 545i, e46 330i
Regarding the chain guides, I put a post up on Xoutpost.com because they were discussing it, and were thinking it was the same as the M62. Thought I might as well add it to this thread since it's becoming on-topic (not really just about the coolant pipe any more -that just instigated it all!)
Timing chain guides on the N62:
The upper timing chain housing is now part of the cylinder head.
On the M62 it wasn't - you took away some bolts and then you could remove the front part of the cylinder head, and slide the chain guides forward.
On the N62, the right-hand side requires removal of the cylinder head in order to change the guides. I can't see any way around it anyway.
On the left hand side of the engine, you can replace them easily, because the pivot bolts/bearings screw out from the front. On the problematic side, they screw out from behind the guide.
Here are some pictures:
Here you can see the part of the cylinder head that is not removable in the N62. This is supposedly an improvement over the M62. Not for the customer!!
Here you can see *behind* the right-side chain guides. This is where you have to unscrew the bearing bolts - the pivot points for the guides on this side. They can only be unscrewed *after* removing the guides, by sliding the guides forwards, which you can't do because of the cylinder head mentioned above.
Here is the same from the front. The guides need to slide forward off here:
Here you can see the other side of the engine - the left side (left side if we were sat in the seats of the car). On this side the pivot screws / bearing bolts actually just remove from the front easily, and then you can drop the guides down / manoeuvre them out no problem.
In 2005 the chain guides were updated. They are now longer, and also on the left side - those that can actually be replaced fairly easily (presuming you already have the engine in bits to fix a leaky coolant pipe or alternator bracket oil seal), the pivot screw/bearing bolt is larger, so newer ones of those (those circled in the picture just above) are needed to go with the newer guides.
You have to replace the guides in pairs (top/bottom), and the older part is no longer available. If it were, you might be able to just pop the plastic bit out of the middle and at least replace that bit on the troublesome right side.
The much-more affordable Febi parts are actually OEM BMW parts, and they have ground-out the BMW logos and the words BMW off of them.
Here are some old-v-new pictures. This is the left-side upper (plastic) guide. The lower metal guide is also increased in size about the same amount.
Timing chain guides on the N62:
The upper timing chain housing is now part of the cylinder head.
On the M62 it wasn't - you took away some bolts and then you could remove the front part of the cylinder head, and slide the chain guides forward.
On the N62, the right-hand side requires removal of the cylinder head in order to change the guides. I can't see any way around it anyway.
On the left hand side of the engine, you can replace them easily, because the pivot bolts/bearings screw out from the front. On the problematic side, they screw out from behind the guide.
Here are some pictures:
Here you can see the part of the cylinder head that is not removable in the N62. This is supposedly an improvement over the M62. Not for the customer!!
Here you can see *behind* the right-side chain guides. This is where you have to unscrew the bearing bolts - the pivot points for the guides on this side. They can only be unscrewed *after* removing the guides, by sliding the guides forwards, which you can't do because of the cylinder head mentioned above.
Here is the same from the front. The guides need to slide forward off here:
Here you can see the other side of the engine - the left side (left side if we were sat in the seats of the car). On this side the pivot screws / bearing bolts actually just remove from the front easily, and then you can drop the guides down / manoeuvre them out no problem.
In 2005 the chain guides were updated. They are now longer, and also on the left side - those that can actually be replaced fairly easily (presuming you already have the engine in bits to fix a leaky coolant pipe or alternator bracket oil seal), the pivot screw/bearing bolt is larger, so newer ones of those (those circled in the picture just above) are needed to go with the newer guides.
You have to replace the guides in pairs (top/bottom), and the older part is no longer available. If it were, you might be able to just pop the plastic bit out of the middle and at least replace that bit on the troublesome right side.
The much-more affordable Febi parts are actually OEM BMW parts, and they have ground-out the BMW logos and the words BMW off of them.
Here are some old-v-new pictures. This is the left-side upper (plastic) guide. The lower metal guide is also increased in size about the same amount.
07-29-2013, 04:09 AM
#57
New Members
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Greensboro, NC (USA)
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Man I'd like to change mine out.. wish it weren't such a pain to do though. I'm over 200K miles on mine.
N62B44 Rebuild and Timing Assistance - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums is a good thread with some info on setting timing somewhere in there. I'm sure the guy who started the thread or bmwoem1 could help (he's a BMW master tech)
N62B44 Rebuild and Timing Assistance - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums is a good thread with some info on setting timing somewhere in there. I'm sure the guy who started the thread or bmwoem1 could help (he's a BMW master tech)
07-30-2013, 02:38 PM
#58
New Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Manchester, England, UK
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: e60 545i, e46 330i
Man I'd like to change mine out.. wish it weren't such a pain to do though. I'm over 200K miles on mine.
N62B44 Rebuild and Timing Assistance - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums is a good thread with some info on setting timing somewhere in there. I'm sure the guy who started the thread or bmwoem1 could help (he's a BMW master tech)
N62B44 Rebuild and Timing Assistance - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums is a good thread with some info on setting timing somewhere in there. I'm sure the guy who started the thread or bmwoem1 could help (he's a BMW master tech)
Anyway, I got the RH cylinder head off just now, and removed all the valves and springs.
I'm not actually sure how to remove the stem seals (about to Google that).
Everything looks good and tidy though.
I'm still unhappy about the VANOS "adjuster unit" (cam sprocket) instructions though, which will be important when I come to time it up.
This is what they say:
When the engine is shut down, the inlet and exhaust
adjustment unit is normally locked in its initial position. The situation may arise in some individual cases where this
initial position is not reached and the camshaft can continue
to be rotated in the adjustment range of the adjustment unit. In order to avoid incorrect timing adjustment, it is essential to
check the locking of the adjustment unit and if necessary
perform locking by rotating the camshafts.
Checking locking of inlet adjustment unit in initial position:
Engage hexagon head of inlet camshaft and attempt to rotate inlet
camshaft carefully against direction of rotation. If there is no fixed connection between inlet camshaft and inlet
adjustment unit, rotate inlet camshaft against direction of rotation
as far as it will go. The inlet adjustment unit is locked in the initial position when the
inlet camshaft is non-positively connected to the inlet adjustment
unit.
Checking locking of exhaust adjustment unit in initial position:
Engage hexagon head of exhaust camshaft and attempt to rotate
exhaust camshaft carefully in direction of rotation. If there is no fixed connection between exhaust camshaft and
exhaust adjustment unit, rotate exhaust camshaft in direction of
rotation as far as it will go. The exhaust adjustment unit is locked in the initial position when
the exhaust camshaft is non-positively connected to the exhaust
adjustment unit.
adjustment unit is normally locked in its initial position. The situation may arise in some individual cases where this
initial position is not reached and the camshaft can continue
to be rotated in the adjustment range of the adjustment unit. In order to avoid incorrect timing adjustment, it is essential to
check the locking of the adjustment unit and if necessary
perform locking by rotating the camshafts.
Checking locking of inlet adjustment unit in initial position:
Engage hexagon head of inlet camshaft and attempt to rotate inlet
camshaft carefully against direction of rotation. If there is no fixed connection between inlet camshaft and inlet
adjustment unit, rotate inlet camshaft against direction of rotation
as far as it will go. The inlet adjustment unit is locked in the initial position when the
inlet camshaft is non-positively connected to the inlet adjustment
unit.
Checking locking of exhaust adjustment unit in initial position:
Engage hexagon head of exhaust camshaft and attempt to rotate
exhaust camshaft carefully in direction of rotation. If there is no fixed connection between exhaust camshaft and
exhaust adjustment unit, rotate exhaust camshaft in direction of
rotation as far as it will go. The exhaust adjustment unit is locked in the initial position when
the exhaust camshaft is non-positively connected to the exhaust
adjustment unit.
07-30-2013, 03:34 PM
#59
New Members
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Greensboro, NC (USA)
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are you holding the sprockets still or just turning the camshafts with no real resistance on the sprockets?
It sounds like you should hold the sprockets still, turn intake cams opposite of the way they normally turn and turn exhaust in normal direction
It also sounds like there's a decent possibility that they're already in the "locked" position and you won't be able to move them anyways
It sounds like you should hold the sprockets still, turn intake cams opposite of the way they normally turn and turn exhaust in normal direction
It also sounds like there's a decent possibility that they're already in the "locked" position and you won't be able to move them anyways
07-30-2013, 04:01 PM
#60
New Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Manchester, England, UK
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: e60 545i, e46 330i
Not holding sprockets.
I just read the description of how these sprockets / adjuster units work (pages 31 here: http://www.bawarec.ru/manuals/7er/e6...7er-e65-12.pdf ), and according to that description, the lock-spring should be locking the VANOS units, which is what I am seeing, so that's fine.
It's just that this (from T.I.S, quoted above) makes no sense:
"The inlet adjustment unit is locked in the initial position when the
inlet camshaft is non-positively connected to the inlet adjustment
unit."
I just read the description of how these sprockets / adjuster units work (pages 31 here: http://www.bawarec.ru/manuals/7er/e6...7er-e65-12.pdf ), and according to that description, the lock-spring should be locking the VANOS units, which is what I am seeing, so that's fine.
It's just that this (from T.I.S, quoted above) makes no sense:
"The inlet adjustment unit is locked in the initial position when the
inlet camshaft is non-positively connected to the inlet adjustment
unit."