Active Steering
12-27-2005, 12:26 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by doug_999' post='215974' date='Dec 27 2005, 12:06 PM
Actually I drove a non AS 550 and a non AS 330 back to back. The 330 required muscle to turn the wheel, the 550 was much lighter. The salesperson even commented that he thought the 550 had AS based on how easy it was to turn the wheel.
Comparing e60 AS to e90 AS -
Sometime in August/September I drove a E90 330 w/ AS around an AutoX course and it definately had more resistance than my car w/ AS.
But also note this -
In an old issue of Car Magazine UK, they drove the E60 530i w/ AS and another one w/o AS. They said that the car w/o AS didn't feel like typical BMW steering. They said it was lighter and didn't feel as good as the e39 5 Series or the e46 3 Series. However, they said when the car w/ AS had a malfunction and the steering went into a failsafe mode that disabled AS, then it felt like good ol' BMW steering! In conclusion they said they didn't like both AS and non-AS, but that the REAL BMW steering is hidden behind the AS car somewhere, and can come out when AS goes into failsafe mode.
12-27-2005, 01:23 PM
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Comparing e60 AS to e90 AS -
Sometime in August/September I drove a E90 330 w/ AS around an AutoX course and it definately had more resistance than my car w/ AS.
But also note this -
In an old issue of Car Magazine UK, they drove the E60 530i w/ AS and another one w/o AS. They said that the car w/o AS didn't feel like typical BMW steering. They said it was lighter and didn't feel as good as the e39 5 Series or the e46 3 Series. However, they said when the car w/ AS had a malfunction and the steering went into a failsafe mode that disabled AS, then it felt like good ol' BMW steering! In conclusion they said they didn't like both AS and non-AS, but that the REAL BMW steering is hidden behind the AS car somewhere, and can come out when AS goes into failsafe mode.
[/quote]
Ohhhh come oooon!
12-27-2005, 01:51 PM
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However, they said when the car w/ AS had a malfunction and the steering went into a failsafe mode that disabled AS, then it felt like good ol' BMW steering! In conclusion they said they didn't like both AS and non-AS, but that the REAL BMW steering is hidden behind the AS car somewhere, and can come out when AS goes into failsafe mode.
[/quote]
No this part is true. When a malfunction occurs, the steering feels nice and solid. I do wish I had a good curvy road nearby to test it out during the couple times it did happen though.
12-27-2005, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by new-kid' post='215346' date='Dec 24 2005, 05:36 PM
I notice a lot of (particularly US) cars seem to have specced the Active Steering
I seem to recall that in almost every UK roadtest they have slated the Active Steering and recommended to avoid it (the standard complaint along with run flats!).
I don't have it - and none of the cars I have driven had it - so can't verify their view.
So is it money well spent or diluting the driver experience ?
I seem to recall that in almost every UK roadtest they have slated the Active Steering and recommended to avoid it (the standard complaint along with run flats!).
I don't have it - and none of the cars I have driven had it - so can't verify their view.
So is it money well spent or diluting the driver experience ?
Off topic just a tad, just spoke to my service writer, she said if you have AS and need an alignment your bill goes from $240.00 to $610.00 at 5.5hrs labour charge with AS.
Now, is it worth it? After the Dunlop runflat fiasco, well, got 4 new treads @ 17k miles for free, but the aligment now is on me, as BMW won't pay past 2k miles!
What you lose in road feel is made up by the ease/less turning of the wheel.
Test drive it if you need to decide.
------------
'04 545i Premium/Sport pkg., Titanium silver, black inter. bluetooth. Logic-7
12-27-2005, 02:43 PM
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It irks me to no end when I hear people say that they "did not buy a BMW for it's parking abilities, but for it's superior driving abilities" in an attempt to imply that AS takes away from the driving abilities of a BMW and the only thing it is good for is for parking. As if all the rest of the people who have AS equipped BMW's (many of whom have had multiple BMW's in the past) suddenly don't care for BMW's driving abilities any more, as long as it is easier to park. I love AS for the pure joy of driving that it provides and could care less if it helps out in parking...........let me say that again louder so there is no confusion as to what I mean........I LOVE AS FOR THE PURE JOY OF DRIVING THAT IT PROVIDES AND COULD CARE LESS IF IT HELPS OUT IN PARKING! As a matter of fact if for some weird reason even if it made parking harder but provided the same driving fun as it does now I would still get AS, that's how much I enjoy it. It is so much fun to drive through twisty roads and even make 90 degree turns at moderate speeds while turning the steering wheel a fraction of the angle required with non AS cars. If anyone has driven one of those scaled down formula racers in the scaled down racetracks that is the feeling that I get when driving my car with AS aggressively on twisty roads. The fun factor with those mini race cars is not how fast you can drive them (they will only go so fast), but how fast you can turn.....and all without lifting your hands from the steering wheel or having to go hand over hand.
All I can say is that having driven many BMW's over the years (the ones in my signiture as well as many that I did not personally own) my E60 with AS is by far the most fun to drive aggressively on curvy roads.......YES even compared with my M3. Actually I still owned my M3 for the first few months of my E60 ownership and was shocked at how primitive and "truck-like" the steering felt compared to the E60 and how much more fun it was to drive the E60. When I say "truck-like" I am not referring to the amount of assist but to the angle of the steering wheel required to make a turn or a chnge of direction. I contribute most of the "fun factor" to the AS. All it takes is to go back and drive a non AS car after you have driven the AS car exclusively for a couple of weeks......that's when you really feel the difference.
I will never buy another BMW without AS (unless it is not offered on that model).
All I can say is that having driven many BMW's over the years (the ones in my signiture as well as many that I did not personally own) my E60 with AS is by far the most fun to drive aggressively on curvy roads.......YES even compared with my M3. Actually I still owned my M3 for the first few months of my E60 ownership and was shocked at how primitive and "truck-like" the steering felt compared to the E60 and how much more fun it was to drive the E60. When I say "truck-like" I am not referring to the amount of assist but to the angle of the steering wheel required to make a turn or a chnge of direction. I contribute most of the "fun factor" to the AS. All it takes is to go back and drive a non AS car after you have driven the AS car exclusively for a couple of weeks......that's when you really feel the difference.
I will never buy another BMW without AS (unless it is not offered on that model).
12-27-2005, 03:38 PM
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I've heard too much bad about it! So I didn't order it. The only option I DIDN'T order. I also didn't order a 6 pack CD. Figured an ipod would do? Hope that wasn't a mistake?
12-28-2005, 01:50 AM
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I notice a lot of (particularly US) cars seem to have specced the Active Steering
I seem to recall that in almost every UK roadtest they have slated the Active Steering and recommended to avoid it (the standard complaint along with run flats!).
I don't have it - and none of the cars I have driven had it - so can't verify their view.
So is it money well spent or diluting the driver experience ?
I seem to recall that in almost every UK roadtest they have slated the Active Steering and recommended to avoid it (the standard complaint along with run flats!).
I don't have it - and none of the cars I have driven had it - so can't verify their view.
So is it money well spent or diluting the driver experience ?
Off topic just a tad, just spoke to my service writer, she said if you have AS and need an alignment your bill goes from $240.00 to $610.00 at 5.5hrs labour charge with AS.
Now, is it worth it? After the Dunlop runflat fiasco, well, got 4 new treads @ 17k miles for free, but the aligment now is on me, as BMW won't pay past 2k miles!
What you lose in road feel is made up by the ease/less turning of the wheel.
Test drive it if you need to decide.
------------
'04 545i Premium/Sport pkg., Titanium silver, black inter. bluetooth. Logic-7
[/quote]
Yes, you are right aobut alignamnet. You also got to have a good dealer that would do a proper alignament. Most auto services here can't even do a normal alignament properly, not to mention about an AS car. Top that with the fact that it might go wrong and that alone should give you some thinking. Just my opinion.
12-28-2005, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jet190rs' post='216033' date='Dec 27 2005, 03:26 PM
But also note this -
In an old issue of Car Magazine UK, they drove the E60 530i w/ AS and another one w/o AS. They said that the car w/o AS didn't feel like typical BMW steering. They said it was lighter and didn't feel as good as the e39 5 Series or the e46 3 Series. However, they said when the car w/ AS had a malfunction and the steering went into a failsafe mode that disabled AS, then it felt like good ol' BMW steering! In conclusion they said they didn't like both AS and non-AS, but that the REAL BMW steering is hidden behind the AS car somewhere, and can come out when AS goes into failsafe mode.
In an old issue of Car Magazine UK, they drove the E60 530i w/ AS and another one w/o AS. They said that the car w/o AS didn't feel like typical BMW steering. They said it was lighter and didn't feel as good as the e39 5 Series or the e46 3 Series. However, they said when the car w/ AS had a malfunction and the steering went into a failsafe mode that disabled AS, then it felt like good ol' BMW steering! In conclusion they said they didn't like both AS and non-AS, but that the REAL BMW steering is hidden behind the AS car somewhere, and can come out when AS goes into failsafe mode.
12-28-2005, 06:33 AM
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I notice a lot of (particularly US) cars seem to have specced the Active Steering
I seem to recall that in almost every UK roadtest they have slated the Active Steering and recommended to avoid it (the standard complaint along with run flats!).
I don't have it - and none of the cars I have driven had it - so can't verify their view.
So is it money well spent or diluting the driver experience ?
I seem to recall that in almost every UK roadtest they have slated the Active Steering and recommended to avoid it (the standard complaint along with run flats!).
I don't have it - and none of the cars I have driven had it - so can't verify their view.
So is it money well spent or diluting the driver experience ?
Off topic just a tad, just spoke to my service writer, she said if you have AS and need an alignment your bill goes from $240.00 to $610.00 at 5.5hrs labour charge with AS.
Now, is it worth it? After the Dunlop runflat fiasco, well, got 4 new treads @ 17k miles for free, but the aligment now is on me, as BMW won't pay past 2k miles!
What you lose in road feel is made up by the ease/less turning of the wheel.
Test drive it if you need to decide.
------------
'04 545i Premium/Sport pkg., Titanium silver, black inter. bluetooth. Logic-7
[/quote]AS would not be worth it to me if I expected to need a $610 alignment--especially since I never notice the presence or absence of AS. Is that figure really correct? Are alignments needed for reasons other than obvious customer faults (e.g., hiting a curb) "free?"
My opinion of AS -
Good:
1) During tight & slow corners (i.e. hairpin turns) less steering wheel movement is required. You never cross your arms - similar to a race car
2) During paralell parking situations, it is so convenient because less steering wheel movement is required.
3) During high speed and highway situations, the amount of steering wheel movement required is similar to any other regular car.
Bad:
1) During tight & slow corners (i.e. hairpin turns) you have to "relearn" how much steering you need based on your speed. After 5k miles I'm still not totally used to it and sometimes I still need to readjust my steering angle after the initial turn-in.
2) Steering is "lighter" and has less resistance. Almost feels like Lexus or Audi steering. On my old BMW E36, the steering was very heavy and had a lot more resistance. That was the typical BMW steering that I liked. The E36 felt like my hands were connected directly to the front wheels, whereas AS on the E60 feels as if my hands are connected to a computer that is connected to the front wheels.
Good:
1) During tight & slow corners (i.e. hairpin turns) less steering wheel movement is required. You never cross your arms - similar to a race car
2) During paralell parking situations, it is so convenient because less steering wheel movement is required.
3) During high speed and highway situations, the amount of steering wheel movement required is similar to any other regular car.
Bad:
1) During tight & slow corners (i.e. hairpin turns) you have to "relearn" how much steering you need based on your speed. After 5k miles I'm still not totally used to it and sometimes I still need to readjust my steering angle after the initial turn-in.
2) Steering is "lighter" and has less resistance. Almost feels like Lexus or Audi steering. On my old BMW E36, the steering was very heavy and had a lot more resistance. That was the typical BMW steering that I liked. The E36 felt like my hands were connected directly to the front wheels, whereas AS on the E60 feels as if my hands are connected to a computer that is connected to the front wheels.
[/quote]I know where my wheels are, in relation to the steering wheel, with AS and without AS. And, I feel the road plenty adequately with AS. I just don't feel AS.
12-28-2005, 11:22 AM
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[/quote]
vnod,
While I agree with you that technically AS is not the parallel of a go kart's steering because the ratio changes with speed with the AS, I still think the comparison with a go kart is valid and here's why: When we try to describe the way AS feels we try to describe the DIFFERENCES from non AS cars, not the similarities. Therefore we would be talking about the slower to moderate speeds, not the faster speeds where the ratio is essentially very similar to non AS cars. I know that at faster speeds the AS's ratio is actually slightly lower than the non AS, but it is pretty close. So the real difference between AS and non AS cars is how the steering feels and responds at slow to moderate speeds, and at these speeds the AS DOES feel like a go kart where a small amount of steering wheel movement achieves the desired turn. So for these reasons I think the go kart parallel is valid.