Active Steering
12-26-2005, 09:05 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by subterFUSE' post='215492' date='Dec 25 2005, 11:30 AM
I have a 2005 545 SMG with Sports Package. As such, my car came with Active Steering... which was included with the Sport Package on 2005 models.
My impression? I LOVE Active Steering. Absolutely love it.
<snip>
That is.... until a couple of weekends ago... when I drove an M5 at the BMW performance center.
The M Servotronic steering is AMAZING. Absolutely the BEST thing about the M5, in my opinion. The steering is speed-sensitive, and the ratio is very quick and responsive. The steering wheel feels so loose, and is so easy to turn quickly... when compared to my 545... it makes the M feel like such a lightweight car.
I now understand why AS is not available on the M5. Servotronic is just awesome. Hands down. It has to be driven to be understood. But there would be no looking back for me.
So... does this mean I don't like AS anymore? No... it just means I understand why it is not available on the M5.
If I was not getting an M5, and had to get a 550 next... I think I would still get Active Steering.
My impression? I LOVE Active Steering. Absolutely love it.
<snip>
That is.... until a couple of weekends ago... when I drove an M5 at the BMW performance center.
The M Servotronic steering is AMAZING. Absolutely the BEST thing about the M5, in my opinion. The steering is speed-sensitive, and the ratio is very quick and responsive. The steering wheel feels so loose, and is so easy to turn quickly... when compared to my 545... it makes the M feel like such a lightweight car.
I now understand why AS is not available on the M5. Servotronic is just awesome. Hands down. It has to be driven to be understood. But there would be no looking back for me.
So... does this mean I don't like AS anymore? No... it just means I understand why it is not available on the M5.
If I was not getting an M5, and had to get a 550 next... I think I would still get Active Steering.
One thing I'm not 100% sure of (I'm about 98% sure, I guess) is that AS cars also have servotronic, right? From reading this thread, you get the impression that we're comparing AS cars (without servotronic) to servotronic cars (without AS). Isn't AS built on top of servotronic?
Either way, I really like AS and don't feel I'm missing anything when driving it. Just like many have said here, the only time I feel like I'm missing something is when I'm driving a car without it...
12-26-2005, 09:19 AM
#42
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Model Year: 2008
I have a 2005 545 SMG with Sports Package. As such, my car came with Active Steering... which was included with the Sport Package on 2005 models.
My impression? I LOVE Active Steering. Absolutely love it.
<snip>
That is.... until a couple of weekends ago... when I drove an M5 at the BMW performance center.
The M Servotronic steering is AMAZING. Absolutely the BEST thing about the M5, in my opinion. The steering is speed-sensitive, and the ratio is very quick and responsive. The steering wheel feels so loose, and is so easy to turn quickly... when compared to my 545... it makes the M feel like such a lightweight car.
I now understand why AS is not available on the M5. Servotronic is just awesome. Hands down. It has to be driven to be understood. But there would be no looking back for me.
So... does this mean I don't like AS anymore? No... it just means I understand why it is not available on the M5.
If I was not getting an M5, and had to get a 550 next... I think I would still get Active Steering.
My impression? I LOVE Active Steering. Absolutely love it.
<snip>
That is.... until a couple of weekends ago... when I drove an M5 at the BMW performance center.
The M Servotronic steering is AMAZING. Absolutely the BEST thing about the M5, in my opinion. The steering is speed-sensitive, and the ratio is very quick and responsive. The steering wheel feels so loose, and is so easy to turn quickly... when compared to my 545... it makes the M feel like such a lightweight car.
I now understand why AS is not available on the M5. Servotronic is just awesome. Hands down. It has to be driven to be understood. But there would be no looking back for me.
So... does this mean I don't like AS anymore? No... it just means I understand why it is not available on the M5.
If I was not getting an M5, and had to get a 550 next... I think I would still get Active Steering.
One thing I'm not 100% sure of (I'm about 98% sure, I guess) is that AS cars also have servotronic, right? From reading this thread, you get the impression that we're comparing AS cars (without servotronic) to servotronic cars (without AS). Isn't AS built on top of servotronic?
Either way, I really like AS and don't feel I'm missing anything when driving it. Just like many have said here, the only time I feel like I'm missing something is when I'm driving a car without it...
[/quote]
Rudy, the link below is to an article that seems to support your suspicions, AS is built on top of the servotronic system.
http://www.bmwworld.com/technology/afs.htm
12-26-2005, 11:15 AM
#43
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My Ride: 535d Eccelsa, 05 2005 (built 12-04), sapphireblack, beige dakota leather, electric seats, poplar wood trim, sport suspension, 124 style 18" alloys, differentiated f/r runflat tyres, steptronic, adaptive light control, bi-xenon, BMW PRO nav, cd, cd changer, electric-foldable and automatic antidazzle rear mirrors, automatic antidazzle internal rear mirror, adjustable central armrest, BT, Hifi Professional LOGIC7 , extended functions aircon, full lighting package, green comfort fascia on windshield, PDC park distance control, voice control, CPT9000 car phone, BMW Assist, BMW On-line, BMW Tracking, alarm system, programmable remote controls.
but when you drive very fast along highways, up to 130 mph and above, definitively you need to change your habits otherwise you're lost. I feel that, in those situations, you have to turn your steering wheel more than usual; if you don't, the car developes a tendency to understeer and that is not a behaviour you expect from her.
[/quote]
It's not a real understeer, just you feel like it because you don't turn your steering wheel enough and so the car goes to the external of the turn. If you turn the wheel more than usual, the car's suspension got loaded and you can turn very fast and tight. But it doesn't work on wet surface, because you create a momentum in the middle of the turn that could cause some loss of traction and, possibly, bad oversteer; it happened to me on a couple of times and I was saved only by the intervention of ESP.
I also noticed that grasping tightly with your hands the steering wheel helps to develope a better feeling and greatly reduce the vagueness feeling, at the cost of much higher psycological commitment and some fatigue .
12-26-2005, 11:29 AM
#44
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My Ride: '05 545i - scheduled for ED pickup in Munich on 7/22!
My opinion of AS -
Good:
1) During tight & slow corners (i.e. hairpin turns) less steering wheel movement is required. You never cross your arms - similar to a race car
2) During paralell parking situations, it is so convenient because less steering wheel movement is required.
3) During high speed and highway situations, the amount of steering wheel movement required is similar to any other regular car.
Bad:
1) During tight & slow corners (i.e. hairpin turns) you have to "relearn" how much steering you need based on your speed. After 5k miles I'm still not totally used to it and sometimes I still need to readjust my steering angle after the initial turn-in.
2) Steering is "lighter" and has less resistance. Almost feels like Lexus or Audi steering. On my old BMW E36, the steering was very heavy and had a lot more resistance. That was the typical BMW steering that I liked. The E36 felt like my hands were connected directly to the front wheels, whereas AS on the E60 feels as if my hands are connected to a computer that is connected to the front wheels.
Good:
1) During tight & slow corners (i.e. hairpin turns) less steering wheel movement is required. You never cross your arms - similar to a race car
2) During paralell parking situations, it is so convenient because less steering wheel movement is required.
3) During high speed and highway situations, the amount of steering wheel movement required is similar to any other regular car.
Bad:
1) During tight & slow corners (i.e. hairpin turns) you have to "relearn" how much steering you need based on your speed. After 5k miles I'm still not totally used to it and sometimes I still need to readjust my steering angle after the initial turn-in.
2) Steering is "lighter" and has less resistance. Almost feels like Lexus or Audi steering. On my old BMW E36, the steering was very heavy and had a lot more resistance. That was the typical BMW steering that I liked. The E36 felt like my hands were connected directly to the front wheels, whereas AS on the E60 feels as if my hands are connected to a computer that is connected to the front wheels.
12-26-2005, 01:37 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by jet190rs' post='215710' date='Dec 26 2005, 12:29 PM
On my old BMW E36, the steering was very heavy and had a lot more resistance. That was the typical BMW steering that I liked. The E36 felt like my hands were connected directly to the front wheels, whereas AS on the E60 feels as if my hands are connected to a computer that is connected to the front wheels.
12-26-2005, 01:44 PM
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There is a reason they didn't put as on the m5 AND let's not start the lemons vs oranges stuff. M servotronic is just a tweaked out servotronic to make it eve more sportier. It is closer to servotronic than to AS.The M5 doesn't have that cahnging ratio the as has.
Reasons i didin't want to pay 2000euros:
1.AS takes away the feel and period. That's what i felt on my test drives.
2. There is less to go wrong (and we can see quite alot of as malfuntions and so...)
3. If i hit a pothole and the alignament is wrecked (and we do have alot of creaters here) you really need a good and experienced dealership to fix that just as new.
4. It would cost alot to realigne.
5. The road feel on standard servotronic is absolutley amaizing and perfect as it is. I don't want no steering ratios budgin in when i drive hard and steer alot, fast and brutal.
Reasons i didin't want to pay 2000euros:
1.AS takes away the feel and period. That's what i felt on my test drives.
2. There is less to go wrong (and we can see quite alot of as malfuntions and so...)
3. If i hit a pothole and the alignament is wrecked (and we do have alot of creaters here) you really need a good and experienced dealership to fix that just as new.
4. It would cost alot to realigne.
5. The road feel on standard servotronic is absolutley amaizing and perfect as it is. I don't want no steering ratios budgin in when i drive hard and steer alot, fast and brutal.
12-26-2005, 06:10 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by Lucky' post='215512' date='Dec 25 2005, 01:18 PM
but when you drive very fast along highways, up to 130 mph and above, definitively you need to change your habits otherwise you're lost. I feel that, in those situations, you have to turn your steering wheel more than usual; if you don't, the car developes a tendency to understeer and that is not a behaviour you expect from her.
I also noticed that grasping tightly with your hands the steering wheel helps to develope a better feeling and greatly reduce the vagueness feeling, at the cost of much higher psycological commitment and some fatigue .
[/quote]
Thanks for the clarification.
12-27-2005, 06:47 AM
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My Ride: 535d Eccelsa, 05 2005 (built 12-04), sapphireblack, beige dakota leather, electric seats, poplar wood trim, sport suspension, 124 style 18" alloys, differentiated f/r runflat tyres, steptronic, adaptive light control, bi-xenon, BMW PRO nav, cd, cd changer, electric-foldable and automatic antidazzle rear mirrors, automatic antidazzle internal rear mirror, adjustable central armrest, BT, Hifi Professional LOGIC7 , extended functions aircon, full lighting package, green comfort fascia on windshield, PDC park distance control, voice control, CPT9000 car phone, BMW Assist, BMW On-line, BMW Tracking, alarm system, programmable remote controls.
Originally Posted by jet190rs' post='215710' date='Dec 26 2005, 09:29 PM
My opinion of AS -
Good:
1) During tight & slow corners (i.e. hairpin turns) less steering wheel movement is required. You never cross your arms - similar to a race car
2) During paralell parking situations, it is so convenient because less steering wheel movement is required.
3) During high speed and highway situations, the amount of steering wheel movement required is similar to any other regular car.
Bad:
1) During tight & slow corners (i.e. hairpin turns) you have to "relearn" how much steering you need based on your speed. After 5k miles I'm still not totally used to it and sometimes I still need to readjust my steering angle after the initial turn-in.
2) Steering is "lighter" and has less resistance. Almost feels like Lexus or Audi steering. On my old BMW E36, the steering was very heavy and had a lot more resistance. That was the typical BMW steering that I liked. The E36 felt like my hands were connected directly to the front wheels, whereas AS on the E60 feels as if my hands are connected to a computer that is connected to the front wheels.
Good:
1) During tight & slow corners (i.e. hairpin turns) less steering wheel movement is required. You never cross your arms - similar to a race car
2) During paralell parking situations, it is so convenient because less steering wheel movement is required.
3) During high speed and highway situations, the amount of steering wheel movement required is similar to any other regular car.
Bad:
1) During tight & slow corners (i.e. hairpin turns) you have to "relearn" how much steering you need based on your speed. After 5k miles I'm still not totally used to it and sometimes I still need to readjust my steering angle after the initial turn-in.
2) Steering is "lighter" and has less resistance. Almost feels like Lexus or Audi steering. On my old BMW E36, the steering was very heavy and had a lot more resistance. That was the typical BMW steering that I liked. The E36 felt like my hands were connected directly to the front wheels, whereas AS on the E60 feels as if my hands are connected to a computer that is connected to the front wheels.
12-27-2005, 07:38 AM
#49
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Originally Posted by Justgold18' post='215665' date='Dec 26 2005, 10:01 AM
Active Steering is a complete convenience option. When pivoting your car during parking or low speed manuvers, steering is a breeze. The drive is not required to turn the wheel as much as he/she would if car did not have Active Steering. Also at hire speeds, the steering feels as though it tightens up and adjusts with the drivers input.
For every convenience is a trade-off. A vehicle with Active Steering seems to be less responsive. What I mean by this is the steering is computer assisted and does take away from the drivers feel of the road. I do live in the the city of Chicago, and do appreciate the Active Steering, especially when parallel parking or parking at The Hancock, Marina City, or any other parking garage that you need to drive up in circles 5 stories until you even see a parking space.
Suggestion...
Go to a dealer that has a car equiped with the active Steering and request a Test Drive. Please post your feedback afterward.
-J
For every convenience is a trade-off. A vehicle with Active Steering seems to be less responsive. What I mean by this is the steering is computer assisted and does take away from the drivers feel of the road. I do live in the the city of Chicago, and do appreciate the Active Steering, especially when parallel parking or parking at The Hancock, Marina City, or any other parking garage that you need to drive up in circles 5 stories until you even see a parking space.
Suggestion...
Go to a dealer that has a car equiped with the active Steering and request a Test Drive. Please post your feedback afterward.
-J
cheers
vern
12-27-2005, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jet190rs' post='215710' date='Dec 26 2005, 02:29 PM
2) Steering is "lighter" and has less resistance. Almost feels like Lexus or Audi steering. On my old BMW E36, the steering was very heavy and had a lot more resistance. That was the typical BMW steering that I liked. The E36 felt like my hands were connected directly to the front wheels, whereas AS on the E60 feels as if my hands are connected to a computer that is connected to the front wheels.