535d vs 645i
06-22-2006, 03:07 PM
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What a Discussion !!
We can see here that some of us take this topic VERY personal!! Even though we all know that petrol is 'still'a bit faster (with the exception of a remapped 535d - which no one has raced yet ???? !!!!! ), it is scary for petrol guys to realize that their gain is slowly fading away.
Diesel guys have more fun driving daily with all that torque. When you want to test your 545i you usually run out of road before u can reach those high revs! I am having fun in my 535d every time the small turbo hands over to the big turbo - and thats at 2500revs only - and still doing 35mpg.
One of you said brilliantly that they are both excellent cars at the end of the day.
OK, now having said that - lets do a drag with a remapped 535d and kick some butt !!!
We can see here that some of us take this topic VERY personal!! Even though we all know that petrol is 'still'a bit faster (with the exception of a remapped 535d - which no one has raced yet ???? !!!!! ), it is scary for petrol guys to realize that their gain is slowly fading away.
Diesel guys have more fun driving daily with all that torque. When you want to test your 545i you usually run out of road before u can reach those high revs! I am having fun in my 535d every time the small turbo hands over to the big turbo - and thats at 2500revs only - and still doing 35mpg.
One of you said brilliantly that they are both excellent cars at the end of the day.
OK, now having said that - lets do a drag with a remapped 535d and kick some butt !!!
06-22-2006, 03:45 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by ronald_adi' post='301704' date='Jun 22 2006, 06:07 PM
What a Discussion !!
We can see here that some of us take this topic VERY personal!! Even though we all know that petrol is 'still'a bit faster (with the exception of a remapped 535d - which no one has raced yet ???? !!!!! ), it is scary for petrol guys to realize that their gain is slowly fading away.
Diesel guys have more fun driving daily with all that torque. When you want to test your 545i you usually run out of road before u can reach those high revs! I am having fun in my 535d every time the small turbo hands over to the big turbo - and thats at 2500revs only - and still doing 35mpg.
One of you said brilliantly that they are both excellent cars at the end of the day.
OK, now having said that - lets do a drag with a remapped 535d and kick some butt !!!
We can see here that some of us take this topic VERY personal!! Even though we all know that petrol is 'still'a bit faster (with the exception of a remapped 535d - which no one has raced yet ???? !!!!! ), it is scary for petrol guys to realize that their gain is slowly fading away.
Diesel guys have more fun driving daily with all that torque. When you want to test your 545i you usually run out of road before u can reach those high revs! I am having fun in my 535d every time the small turbo hands over to the big turbo - and thats at 2500revs only - and still doing 35mpg.
One of you said brilliantly that they are both excellent cars at the end of the day.
OK, now having said that - lets do a drag with a remapped 535d and kick some butt !!!
Why would a petrol guy care if a diesel is faster? If it was, then I'd happily switch to a diesel. I can't imagine why anyone would be loyal to fuel. You might as well be loyal to deodorant. I'll be back later for the fun. 
Data for BMW 535d: All Steptronics:
..........................{...........535d........ ....}......Znod--Best 5 Avg
............................GM1.....GM1.....GM2... ............Pro RR
0-40 km/h..............2.0.......2.0.......1.7............ ....1.323
0-60 km/h..............3.5.......3.5.......3.1............ ....2.541
0-80 km/h..............5.0.......4.9.......4.5............ ....3.799
0-100 km/h.............7.1......6.8.......6.5.............. ..5.363
0-120 km/h.............9.5......9.0.......9.0.............. ..7.277
0-140 km/h...........12.4.....11.7.....11.5................ 9.300
0-160 km/h...........16.4.....15.3.....15.1..............11 .949
0-180 km/h...........21.0.....19.5
0-200 km/h...........27.4.....25.4
1/4 mile.............................................. .............13.469 @ 105.323
GM = German Magazine (GM1 = Auto Zeitung; GM2 = Unknown--reported to me with out magazine name on another thread)
On another thread, Merv the Derv referenced an unknown-to-me English-speaking magazine mentioning that its test yielded a 5.8 0 to 60 MPH figure for the 535d.
Here are clived's results for his before remap and remapped 535d:
"Before" Results from Santa Pod Raceway, UK:
14.174 (1/4 time)
98.060 (1.4 speed)
9.146 (1/8 time)
77.840 (1/8 speed)
2.126 (60' time)
13.8 (1/4 time) after DMS remap
As, indicated, clived's results were obtained at Santa Pod Raceway in the UK (Wellingborough, Northhamptonshire). Making an educated quess, using web data, I think that Santa Pod is likely to be about 250' above sea level. If so, then Clived's 1/4 time and speed adjusted to 500' become 14.212 and 97.798, respectively. clived indicates that his pass was made in June of 2005 immediately before his remap. So, the weather probably was pretty warm--indicating that weather adjustment might make improve his altitude adjusted data.
06-22-2006, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' post='301658' date='Jun 22 2006, 10:18 PM
Yes ats look at the thread!!! 
And indeed gravity works wonders here, cuz probably gravity pulled Bulgaria with us, i dare to say that if it wouldn't have been for bulgaria we would have had our date settled allready (01.01.2007) with our own problems true, but because of your country the communication of the date has been postponed since we managed to evolve a little at some chapters while bulgaria didn't. So in this case you can thank to that imaginary gravity you stupidly keep mentioning.
Bye bye now! Hope not to see you again...
Pls people don't quote him....
And indeed gravity works wonders here, cuz probably gravity pulled Bulgaria with us, i dare to say that if it wouldn't have been for bulgaria we would have had our date settled allready (01.01.2007) with our own problems true, but because of your country the communication of the date has been postponed since we managed to evolve a little at some chapters while bulgaria didn't. So in this case you can thank to that imaginary gravity you stupidly keep mentioning.
Bye bye now! Hope not to see you again...
Pls people don't quote him....
romania fails on 8 clauses of the eu convention, bulgaria on 5... go get educated :thumbsdown:
the only nation that is worse is albania
06-22-2006, 07:42 PM
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Personally I think bettermakeways race may have been closer than we might have thought cause of the brake torquing. If the 6 series driver only revved to 1500rpm then he would have been nowhere near the peak powerband, whereas the diesel would have been slap bang into it.
06-23-2006, 11:08 AM
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BetterMakeWay, I think you have a quick 535d. I also hope they bring the 535d to the States, after watching that Top Gear Vid, I want one.
700700/BetterMakeWay - did you guys know that you can add each other to your ignore list? You won't see anything from the other person. Of course there is the chance that you guys are just old friends and like bashing each other here
700700/BetterMakeWay - did you guys know that you can add each other to your ignore list? You won't see anything from the other person. Of course there is the chance that you guys are just old friends and like bashing each other here
06-23-2006, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by needforspeed' post='301665' date='Jun 23 2006, 12:31 AM
Very true - for me I think the conclusion is that the 545i and the 645i are faster in a drag than the 535d by a significant amount (in drag racing terms at least) but that the 535d does not embaress itself in this company by any stretch.
I think we pretty much proved this much last time the debate aired.
However, although that amount is significant - it is not so significant that driver reaction time will not be a major issue.
Personally I think bettermakeways race may have been closer than we might have thought cause of the brake torquing. If the 6 series driver only revved to 1500rpm then he would have been nowhere near the peak powerband, whereas the diesel would have been slap bang into it.
Either way - what heartens me about this is that it demonstrates the performance potential of the 535d - diesel power has come a long way if a 3 litre lump (even with 2 turbos) can hold it's own against a V8 (and more significantly a BMW V8).
What disheartens me is the aggressive response to his post.
Don't take it to heart
I think we pretty much proved this much last time the debate aired.
However, although that amount is significant - it is not so significant that driver reaction time will not be a major issue.
Personally I think bettermakeways race may have been closer than we might have thought cause of the brake torquing. If the 6 series driver only revved to 1500rpm then he would have been nowhere near the peak powerband, whereas the diesel would have been slap bang into it.
Either way - what heartens me about this is that it demonstrates the performance potential of the 535d - diesel power has come a long way if a 3 litre lump (even with 2 turbos) can hold it's own against a V8 (and more significantly a BMW V8).
What disheartens me is the aggressive response to his post.
Don't take it to heart
As always you've proven the best thinking and the biggest degree of maturity.
Cheers, my friend...
Andrew D.
06-23-2006, 10:39 PM
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Fully appreciate the test, too. Have seen many petrol/diesel discussions with highly sophisticated calculations etc. but nothing resembles day to day driving conditions.
I also agree the 45's will be slightly faster in a clean drag, but in normal day to day driving there is about nothing in it, due to conditions torque development etc. I do not want to engage into the which is better discussion and for me my mapped 535d is the perfect solution. Would we have saudi arabian petrol prices, it would be a 550 with a supercharger bolted on.
Interestingly, if you try it the other way round, again you'll be surprised that there is not superbly much in it, if you put a 535d against a 530i (especially the latest one). In day to day driving, the 535d will not gain much, apart from riding the torque in gear.
On the Europe issue, got nothing to do with our cars, so I won't comment, as political discussions will always light fires and I doubt it's suited to this side. (no side taken of who started whatsoever)
Thanks for sharing those videos and your views of the trials.
I also agree the 45's will be slightly faster in a clean drag, but in normal day to day driving there is about nothing in it, due to conditions torque development etc. I do not want to engage into the which is better discussion and for me my mapped 535d is the perfect solution. Would we have saudi arabian petrol prices, it would be a 550 with a supercharger bolted on.
Interestingly, if you try it the other way round, again you'll be surprised that there is not superbly much in it, if you put a 535d against a 530i (especially the latest one). In day to day driving, the 535d will not gain much, apart from riding the torque in gear.
On the Europe issue, got nothing to do with our cars, so I won't comment, as political discussions will always light fires and I doubt it's suited to this side. (no side taken of who started whatsoever)
Thanks for sharing those videos and your views of the trials.
06-24-2006, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by olli_535d' post='302400' date='Jun 24 2006, 01:39 AM
the 45's will be slightly faster in a clean drag , but in normal day to day driving there is about nothing in it, due to conditions torque development etc. I assume you are saying not much difference in day to day driving because seldomly would drag race speeds beyond around 62 kph would be reached. Right?
, but in normal day to day driving there is about nothing in it, due to conditions torque development etc. I assume you are saying not much difference in day to day driving because seldomly would drag race speeds beyond around 62 kph would be reached. Right?
06-24-2006, 07:45 AM
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He is just saying that it comes down to who is driving on the day, and when someone puts their foot down they might be in the right gear etc. to get a cleaner break.
I would love to see The Stig and Clarkson do a lap again in the 545i Vs 535d with Clarkson driving the Petrol and The Stig in the diesel, I bet the gap would be far less.
I would also like to see The Stig in a DMS'd 535d, I would put my house on him winning.
If I lived in the States where petrol was cheap I would have a petrol, although it would have to be an M5/6 to get me out of the mapped 535d, all BetterMakeWay did was post some videos, showing that the 535d doesn't do too bad against its big petrol brother V8 that costs $14000 and drinks 40% more juice.
I would love to see The Stig and Clarkson do a lap again in the 545i Vs 535d with Clarkson driving the Petrol and The Stig in the diesel, I bet the gap would be far less.
I would also like to see The Stig in a DMS'd 535d, I would put my house on him winning.
If I lived in the States where petrol was cheap I would have a petrol, although it would have to be an M5/6 to get me out of the mapped 535d, all BetterMakeWay did was post some videos, showing that the 535d doesn't do too bad against its big petrol brother V8 that costs $14000 and drinks 40% more juice.
06-24-2006, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by gIzzE' post='302488' date='Jun 24 2006, 06:45 PM
He is just saying that it comes down to who is driving on the day, and when someone puts their foot down they might be in the right gear etc. to get a cleaner break.
I would love to see The Stig and Clarkson do a lap again in the 545i Vs 535d with Clarkson driving the Petrol and The Stig in the diesel, I bet the gap would be far less.
I would also like to see The Stig in a DMS'd 535d, I would put my house on him winning.
If I lived in the States where petrol was cheap I would have a petrol, although it would have to be an M5/6 to get me out of the mapped 535d, all BetterMakeWay did was post some videos, showing that the 535d doesn't do too bad against its big petrol brother V8 that costs $14000 and drinks 40% more juice.
I would love to see The Stig and Clarkson do a lap again in the 545i Vs 535d with Clarkson driving the Petrol and The Stig in the diesel, I bet the gap would be far less.
I would also like to see The Stig in a DMS'd 535d, I would put my house on him winning.
If I lived in the States where petrol was cheap I would have a petrol, although it would have to be an M5/6 to get me out of the mapped 535d, all BetterMakeWay did was post some videos, showing that the 535d doesn't do too bad against its big petrol brother V8 that costs $14000 and drinks 40% more juice.