Current E39 thinking about E60
03-31-2005, 01:44 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by Rudy' date='Mar 31 2005, 12:55 PM
I had two E39 leases (a '98 and a '01) and loved those cars.? As soon as I saw the first pictures of the E60, I knew that's what I wanted.?
If you like "Vanessa", you'll love the E60.? Go drive it and then see if you still want to look elsewhere!
If you like "Vanessa", you'll love the E60.? Go drive it and then see if you still want to look elsewhere!
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That was actually part of the reason I kept the E39 until now when it is officially out of warranty... it has taken (and will continue to take) time for the Bangle E60 to grow on me... would have been so much simpler if she had just swept me off my feet like she did to you
As an aside on that styling note... have you seen the pictures of the E65 with the new Alpina front apron? It looks sort of like an E39!
Will definitely give it a go though... even if my first bimmer ever was a lemon (it wasn't) I would always put BMW on my prospective list whenever it came time to car-shop.
03-31-2005, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ?gent99' date='Mar 31 2005, 01:53 PM
BTW, nice reference to old Toadflea...I do recall all that quite well...? 
But, to be frank, I have never really driven an Audi or Mercedes or Lexus.? I've ridden in them but never really drove them myself.? Also, to be more frank, I am just not interested in any other marquee...right now.
? I'm happy to be ignorant of all other brands save BMW!? 
But, to be frank, I have never really driven an Audi or Mercedes or Lexus.? I've ridden in them but never really drove them myself.? Also, to be more frank, I am just not interested in any other marquee...right now.
? I'm happy to be ignorant of all other brands save BMW!? [snapback]109442[/snapback]
My ex and I bought cars at the same time in '01 -- I went for the steel blue 540i and she went for a quartz blue CLK430. My sedan handled better than her coupe handsdown... not to mention off-the-line performance... now I'm not saying I couldn't smoke the AMG rims but the visceral thrill of the 4.4l M62 it was not.
I figure this time around I have to give the competition (e.g. can we say Audi S6 with the Lambo Gallardo V10?) a chance... although the recent M-B news releases have been less than encouraging.
03-31-2005, 01:55 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by TitaniumGray5' date='Mar 31 2005, 01:54 PM
As for active steering, I too was a little concerned based on posts I've read.? But after 1,500 miles in Europe in the last week, I can tell you active steering is great...I experienced no issues whatsoever.? In fact, driving my z4 today, it felt like a school bus pulling out of my garage because of the amount of wheel turning required.? I drove on a lot of backroads in the 545 and never noticed any change of ratio mid turn, etc. No noises either.? Perhaps its the new software that has made the difference.
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My short seat-time in the 6-series with AS is definitely not enough information for me to come to a substantive conclusion on whether I truly like it or hate it... however, based merely on that experience, I felt less connected to the road because of what seemed to be significantly less tactile steering feedback.
03-31-2005, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BMW#4' date='Mar 31 2005, 01:58 PM
I considered 6 and 7 series, but
a) with a wife and 2 young kids, I did not want a 2 door
b) at age 30 I prefer to leave a 7 for my 40's (leave myself something else to look forward to
!)
With the MSports pack, the 5 series is clearly unique, I think it really stands out compared to Merc, Audi etc.
a) with a wife and 2 young kids, I did not want a 2 door
b) at age 30 I prefer to leave a 7 for my 40's (leave myself something else to look forward to
!)With the MSports pack, the 5 series is clearly unique, I think it really stands out compared to Merc, Audi etc.
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I can totally understand the need for 4 doors with a family on-hand. However, in my specific case, that would be a great argument against me getting an E60 at this point in my life (now why did I get an E39 4 years ago... ok so my arguments are full of fallacies... haha)
I -just- saw one member's pictures of the front of a steel (?) grey E60 with the MSports valance... all I can say is wow -- that would be a necessity for me!
03-31-2005, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by swajames' date='Mar 31 2005, 02:00 PM
edited to add that I did consider and test drive the A6 and Acura RL (and have been a previous MB owner), they were good but when I test drove the 545 I knew I was going to buy the car before we even got back to the showroom.? It was just in a different league to the others.....? The E60 has soul, spirit and generates real emotion, the Audi etc were just "nice"
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I think I will do the same... one of the BMW Service guys here even suggested that I try the RL. I had never thought about it but when he told me the price I was pretty shocked... a supposed E65 competitor priced lower than the E60? I am now curious though in my head I'm already anticipating that it will feel boat-like...
Now I am debating what order to test-drive in
would hate to do the 545 first and then realize I shouldn't even waste any more of my time
03-31-2005, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by rfg17' date='Mar 31 2005, 02:04 PM
While I enjoy the car, I would say a couple of things about it in comparison to the E39 (which I loved).
1. It is a more "refined" car.? The interior has better fit and finish and is more luxurious than the E39, even though you will read gripes about use of plastic, etc.? quality of leather, etc. on this board.? They have and continue to make cosmetic improvements over the original 2003 version and it is just better.
2. The drive has been similarly "refined".? It is great, but I think there is a tad less "road feel" in the E60 than the E39.? I recently drove a loaner 325ci and was surprised how much more I felt connected to the road (in a good way) than in the E60.?
3. It is a bigger car than the E39-- about an inch in each dimension.? It definitely feels like a bigger car when? you drive it, which may have something to do with 2.? (The good news is that it is much roomier in the back seats than the E39.)
4. They have gone way overboard on gadgetry.? iDrive is not as bad or hard to use as the press has written, but it still is a very complicated car with too much in the way of noticeable electronics and not as good ergonomics as the E39.? As an example, they put the red/blue vent controls under iDrive.? Why?? It really doesn't declutter anything, and I tend to use them a lot in the winter.? Just gratuitous gadgetry when a simple analog control worked just fine.? There are many other examples.? It's not a complete killer, but it detracts from the driving experience.? (And I'm a gadget freak.)
5. All the gadgetry has taken a big toll on reliability.? There are numerous software glitches.? I had my car in for almost a month with a mysterious battery drain problem which they finally tracked down to the main controller (AS-K controller) waking up at odd intervals intermittently.? You become very aware of software, release levels, glitches.? It's getting to be more like owning a PDA or a computer than a car.? This in my mind is the car's biggest drawback.
1. It is a more "refined" car.? The interior has better fit and finish and is more luxurious than the E39, even though you will read gripes about use of plastic, etc.? quality of leather, etc. on this board.? They have and continue to make cosmetic improvements over the original 2003 version and it is just better.
2. The drive has been similarly "refined".? It is great, but I think there is a tad less "road feel" in the E60 than the E39.? I recently drove a loaner 325ci and was surprised how much more I felt connected to the road (in a good way) than in the E60.?
3. It is a bigger car than the E39-- about an inch in each dimension.? It definitely feels like a bigger car when? you drive it, which may have something to do with 2.? (The good news is that it is much roomier in the back seats than the E39.)
4. They have gone way overboard on gadgetry.? iDrive is not as bad or hard to use as the press has written, but it still is a very complicated car with too much in the way of noticeable electronics and not as good ergonomics as the E39.? As an example, they put the red/blue vent controls under iDrive.? Why?? It really doesn't declutter anything, and I tend to use them a lot in the winter.? Just gratuitous gadgetry when a simple analog control worked just fine.? There are many other examples.? It's not a complete killer, but it detracts from the driving experience.? (And I'm a gadget freak.)
5. All the gadgetry has taken a big toll on reliability.? There are numerous software glitches.? I had my car in for almost a month with a mysterious battery drain problem which they finally tracked down to the main controller (AS-K controller) waking up at odd intervals intermittently.? You become very aware of software, release levels, glitches.? It's getting to be more like owning a PDA or a computer than a car.? This in my mind is the car's biggest drawback.
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First off, thanks for the itemized feedback from your personal experiences... I couldn't ask for a better direct comparison!
Having gone through your list of caveats, you have pretty much nailed the exact concerns I am having at moving from the E39 up. After trying the 6, I realized that the jump from the E39 to this next generation is HUGE. It's not a refinement or an evolution at all... it seems to be a very very different (for better or worse) execution in the same BMW spirit.
I agree with your assessment completely that the new 5 definitely feels and looks more luxe as far as the interior redesign goes... the lines are organic and more elegant... less Teutonic almost... of course it is personal opinion on whether you find the 'look' of the new interior better or worse but it indeed seems like higher-grade materials.
The difference in size is not so noticeable when just looking at it from the outside (though admittedly being able to spot a 2 inch difference with the naked eye and no comparison point would be difficult at best) but I was always afraid that it would handle more Benz-like because of its greater focus on luxury and cabin room.
I am hoping that since 2005/2006 is yet another year or two after introduction that those niggling software and electronics issues have been worked out... guess it's a cross-your-fingers type of thing...
Originally Posted by rfg17' date='Mar 31 2005, 02:04 PM
I also wonder if the E90 3-series will be closer to what the E39 was, given that every model seems to be getting bigger/more luxurious/gadgety.? We'll see...
So, if you love your E39, I would suggest driving the E60 and think real hard about whether moving up is a real improvement.? I suspect the E39 is going to be considered a "classic" BMW as time goes on.
So, if you love your E39, I would suggest driving the E60 and think real hard about whether moving up is a real improvement.? I suspect the E39 is going to be considered a "classic" BMW as time goes on.
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I definitely think it should be given 'classic' status... never have I felt more attached to a vehicle I've driven/owned... but time only stops for a scant few cars.
03-31-2005, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Iceman' date='Mar 31 2005, 02:07 PM
Welcome aboard, jd604 
!
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Thanks for the welcome! I'll just take this small empty space to apologize to the thread readers who have to read what must appear to be an endless number of my reponse posts...
03-31-2005, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ManyBMWS' date='Mar 31 2005, 02:14 PM
I am in a similiar position as you. I have a 1999 E39 540 Sport pkg and am itching for a new E60. I've driven the 6 series, the 545 step, and am just waiting to test the 545 smg to finally decide on transmition. I'm not interested in any other cars (well, an M5, but not realistic for me right now). I will wait for the 2006 550 and order one to my specs and take delivery in the late fall.? Good luck!
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That sounds very similar to what I am doing right at this moment.. I would be curious to try both the step and the SMG but since the SMG can do a full automatic mode (jerky or weird feeling shifts notwithstanding!) I doubt that I would put money down for a step.
What did you think of the 6?
Good luck with your order too! I'm going to bring up the 550 issue with my dealer -- I wonder how honest they can be with me about incentive pricing as the end of the 545 draws nearer...
03-31-2005, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by beewang' date='Mar 31 2005, 02:17 PM
FYI, JFrench unloaded that P-car over a year ago.
If you want a cheap sports car, go w/ a C6 Vette. The E60 is a much better car than the E39 in EVERY way. This from an M5 owner.
good luck w/ whatever you do.
cheers,
beewang
If you want a cheap sports car, go w/ a C6 Vette. The E60 is a much better car than the E39 in EVERY way. This from an M5 owner.
good luck w/ whatever you do.
cheers,
beewang
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I remember you from those other forums a couple years ago when I used to frequent them more often... glad to see a familiar name pop-up on a different board.
I have also considered the C6 'Vette and am not adverse to giving it another look. I had ruled out the C5 completely based on the hideous and truly cheap-feeling/looking interior. The C6 definitely has made leaps and bounds of progress in that area though but a part of me is saying that I will regret going to a Chevrolet product from a bimmer no matter how good the performance.
Thanks for the well wishes.