swajames

Yep - that's the question. If the X6 was truly a new category as BMW claims then why do they make comparisons with other manufacturers products in the "legacy" SUV category? In my view, the reason the X6 isn't really a competitor to the mainstream SUV's is a relative lack of utility. If that doesn't matter to the buyer, then the X6 could be a great vehicle for them.

BetterMakeWay

Yeah well believe it or not the X6 doesn't really have any true competitors. The only things that pops into my mind right now is the Infinity FX series, which is more or less of a competitor. BMW seems to aim higher. Having said that even if the "class" is not so developed than this doesn't mean the car doesn't have a competition. Look at Mercedes when they got out the new CLS which neither seemed to have a true competitor, but that doesn't mean it will not steal away sales from BMW 5 series or 6 sieries or Audi A6 or even in house cars like the E Klass. This is compeitition and i think marketing people take into account all that neighborhood of competitors (some being closer than others in terms of rival & direct competitiveness) and try ultimately as a core target to shift buyers as much as possible from that neighborhood to the center which in our case is the BMW X6.

swajames

Yep, I agree. The different "classes" all have overlap with others and will blend together. Some buyers do cross-shop very different cars. I'm an example - when I got my 997 I was also looking at an Audi S6 and a Jaguar XK (and, of course, the LCI 550 but that's a long story....) Ultimately, I think you're on to something in that the X6 should be targeted more at the crossover market more than the SUV market.

550isport

I agree 100% that these statements reflect public perception of these brands, at least in the U.S. But it is true in many walks of life that the smaller groups of real enthusiasts feel differently. Americans may feel that a Pioneer Elite is the pinnacle of flat screen TVs because it is the best TV sold at national chains like BestBuy. I'd be very upset if you swapped my Loewe TV out for a Pioneer Elite. The same is true of Mercedes, and, IMHO possibly some non-911 Porsches. I can't tell you how many friends and clients I have that aspire to own a Porsche who aren't car people and don't appreciate performance cars. People are in love with the idea and image of ownership. This I feel is very true with the Cayenne. People spend the extra money for a Cayenne (as you have pointed out) because they perceive its worth it.

I once had a great .jpeg I got from the internet. It read: Mercedes, for those who want to impress; BMW for those who want to be impressed.

The underdog often offers the superior product. That's how the natural laws of competition work.

As for the X6, we'll have to wait and see how it does.

DRP

swajames

I take your points, DRP. In this case, though, and to pick up on your analogy, BMW would be the Pioneer Elite (at the high end of the mainstream) with Porsche being the equivalent of Loewe (and funnily enough we used to own a Loewe TV which in keeping with the spirit of your analogy was styled by Porsche Design). Quite simply, everything that rightly differentiates BMW (enthusiast following, focus on performance, sporting heritage, higher end brand positioning) applies to Porsche except the dial goes up to 11 (if you'll pardon the Spinal Tap reference) and the brand is not nearly as mainstream. That's essentially the point that I challenged in your initial post where the observation was that the GTS worked because the Porsche needed to and had somehow become "more like a BMW". My point was that it doesn't, and it never did. In fact, I strongly believe that BMW customers like you (who place a higher premium on sport and handling) would be much happier if BMW became more like Porsche. I believe that your analogy and assessment of positioning is spot on when it is applied to BMW and Mercedes, but I feel it is flawed when you try to apply it to BMW and Porsche.

545iBMW

While everyone is entitled for an opinion, I don't think that anyone is right or wrong.
Most of the people here drives a bimmer and of course, most of us will be biased. Another drives a P-car, paid premium - and I would suspect a biased opinion too.

But here's my 2 cents.

I think what he meant about "more like a BMW" is not to insult a P-owner.
It"s his benchmark. Everyone is different. A guy who loves <cough> Toyota will and always compare other brands with Toyota reliability, because that's his benchmark. A bimmer owner will mostly want to compare the handling, ride and the suspension characteristics that we get accustomed to - and that becomes a benchmark. Bimmers have been consistent about this ride quality on all of its range.

A P-owner, being in-love with the brand, will always feel that everything is below par. Heck, any brand loyalist will feel the same way - and that becomes their benchmark.

So, having said that - I think it all boils down to brand loyalty. Enuf said.

JetBlack5OC

Does anyone still find it strange the X6 is only a 4-seater?

Why buy such a big and heavy car, that has such little utility?

550isport

These new mega sport SUVs are like that. Cockpit-like. The Cayenne GTS is the same. They removed the bench seat and put in two distinct seats with bolsters.

silver bullet

I am a huge BMW fan. I am a huge Porsche Fan. I own an E53 X5 4.4 and a 997 Carrera S. I love both makers. I was at the local release of the X6. I wanted to like this vehicle so much, but my God it looks dreadful in person. Maybe it was the shitty green color of the demo or whatever, but it looked horrible. I love the concept of it, and the performance is really eye catching. I just simply cannot get past the awful side view of the thing. I was in fact considering moving up to this X6 when the TTV8 comes out, but now I am thinking Cayenne GTS. What does it say that the Cayenne is actually much better looking than the BMW? Yikes!

All that said as both a BMW and Porsche owner I gotta agree with the other Porschephile on this one regarding pecking order. No matter what BMW does it is not going to be a direct competitor with the Porsche Badge. I know the X5 and X6 are likely both better verhicles overall than any of the Cayenne counterparts, but that doesn't put it in the same level of prestige on badge. You just have to own a Porsche to see this IMO. Also that is not a slight to BMW in any way either. It is simply the way it is. You may not believe it, or think we are being rude. That is not the intent, at least for me it is not. Anyway, FWIW I don't think the X6 and Cayenne are direct competitors no matter what BMW might do to tell us otherwise.

BetterMakeWay

Oh come on man! Direct competitors, indirect competitors...who gives a E$#@? If the X6 will be able to steal away clients like you silver bullet then what's that called?

Imo 545iBMW hit the nail on the coffin (or so it seems). I agree completely.


PS: I've just been informed by my dealer that there are over 100 X6 orders in progress and the car hasn't been launched yet here (end of May).