BetterMakeWay

Sorry to burst your bubble but X6 is not targeted only at US. Many people, myself included never heard of aztek or whatever pontiac, gm, caddy or other american rubbish. Moreover if they know the car chances are that even less people see those kind of crappy cars on a daily basis.

Comparing X6 with whatever ssang yong, aztek, atlantis or whatever weird name is completly out of place. You'll see, this car will make history as in sale numbers. Here in my country the frenzy allready started. You can't get an X6 now sooner than the end of 2008. That's how many pre-oreders have been made and the car is still one month due from official launch.

@swajames: "If we're talking stock, the X6 V8 at 5,269 lbs with "just" 400hp isn't going to be spectacularly quick."

Yeah 5.4 seconds isn't spectacular quick since i wonder how many E60s aside from the M5 are able to top that and with way less weight. This car with some mods (not too expensive) will run higher 4s. If that doesn't impress you here are some quick facts:

Porsche Cayenne Turbo:

4.806 cm?
368 kW (500 PS)
bei Drehzahl 6.000 1/min
700 Nm
bei Drehzahl 2.250 - 4.500 1/min

H?chstgeschwindigkeit 275 km/h
Beschleunigung 0 - 100 km/h 5,1 s
Beschleunigung 0 - 160 km/h 11,4 s
Elastizit?t (80 - 120 km/h) 5,5 s

Leergewicht nach DIN 2.355 kg

Innerst?dtisch 22,5 l/100 km
Au?erst?dtisch 10,5 l/100 km
Gesamt 14,9 l/100 km
CO2-Emission g/km 358 g

BMW X6 xDrive50i:
Capacity in ccm 4,395
Max. output in kW (PS) at 1/min 300 (407)/5,500-6,400
Max. torque in Nm at 1/min 600/1,800-4,500
unladen weight 2,265 kg
Acceleration 0 - 100 km/h (in s) 5.4
Acceleration 0 - 1,000 m (in s) 24.6
Acceleration 80 - 120 km/h in 4th/5th gear (in s) -/-
Fuel consumption
Urban (l/100 km) 17.6
Extra-urban (l/100 km) 9.5
Composite (l/100 km) 12.5
CO2 emissions (g/km) 299

Looking at the porsche rival the porsche seems to be more of a pig wouldn't you agree?! If we start to look also at the prices then we know what's the no brainer choice. Also this X6 looks astonishingly i've seen it up front. It's just like others said, so much better in person and pics don't do enough justice. Compared to the Porsche pumped up 911 this looks...epic. I can't remember (and i'm serious now) an uglier SUV for that kind of cash than the Cayenne. It's like a beefed up frog...well it used to be. Now it looks like the frog got mixed up with a crock. Still ugly! But that's just personal taste.

swajames

DRP, I think we're essentially on the same page. I'm personally not the biggest fan of the Cayenne, but that said I do feel it is a very capable SUV and in most respects it is more complete and capable than the X5. The X5 is a good SUV, no question, but I feel the Cayenne has the performance edge and in that respect I think we're focusing on the same thing. Just one point, as I understand it, ARS as implemented in the 7 and 5 series was actually developed by ZF/Sachs, not BMW, though the concept was in production much earlier. As an example, the Citroen Xantia had an active roll stabilization - which worked incredibly well - back in the mid 1990's. In this respect, Porsche didn't lift anything from BMW.

By the way - if ever you need any info on a 997 as it compares to the 550 I'd be happy to help as I've owned both and feel I now know and appreciate the differences between them.

BetterMakeWay, I think the Cayenne Turbo is indeed lighter than the X6 (which is 5269 lbs), but with its 500hp and 516lb/ft of torque it is considerably quicker, and tunable to much, much more if you like that kind of thing. The new Turbo S has 550hp, and 553 lb/ft. Should be quicker still, and just as tunable as the base Turbo.

550isport

Bettermakeway,


I have a former classmate who works for BMW NA in New Jersey. He had an X6 for the day and tells me the new all wheel drive system, essentially Acura's SHAWD, makes the car feel "light years" more agile and nimble than an X5. BMW has always been able to work wonders with the quoted power of their engines (i.e. the acceleration of the E36 M3 with only 240 hp). Imagine what the X6 will do with 450 lb. ft of torque that arrives just over idle!

I personally think the new X5 interior, which the X6 is modeled after, is the best interior of all the current offerings.

The wife wants me to break out of her lease to get into an X6. Not happening.

DRP

Richard in NC

The answer is the bigger, slightly heavier X6 with 400hp is 0-60 in 5.4 secs. The Cayenne GTS with 405hp takes 6.1 secs 0-60 per the Porsche web site. BTW, I just did the Porsche configurator. A nicely equiped GTS would cost $90k, well more than the X6 V8 TT will be.

swajames

The Turbo is the one to compare against the X6 50i. It's more expensive, but you get what you pay for in terms of performance and prestige, which in this segment is important. I will concede that Porsche is terrible for options. Stuff that should be standard is an option. When I got my 911 I had to pay $115 for floor mats. Even my power seats were an option. Then again, it's a Porsche and there's a cost of entry, and anyone who is seriously looking at a Turbo quickly and easily rationalizes the cost difference over an X6 just as BMW owners are happy to pay the premium over say an Infiniti or an Audi. In any event, the X6 and the Cayenne don't really compete, whereas the X5 and Cayenne obviously do.

BetterMakeWay

Well boys like it or not the X6 will compete with the Cayenne and for sure will steal away clients. In fact i have a boruchure in my hands with the X6, putting it head to head with the Cayenne GTS, range Rover Sport V8 supercharged, Porsche Cayman (just as an acceleration point). The X6 with more stuff as standard than the Cayenne which gives you "only the badge to stamp it on your head" for less bucks is only 0.3 seconds slower than the big brother Cayenne Turbo and only 100NM shy off. The torque arrives sooner in the X6 and however you put it the X6 is lighter than the Turbo since those data presented are taken from the porsche website (german: www.porsche.de) and international website of BMW. Moreover because of the more tight feel of the X6 this car will feel as a balerina compared to the SUV Cayenne which is a beefed up Touareg. Cayenne GTS stands no chance in competing with the X6 although the price range is the same but the X6 will smoke it for it's money sky high.

@550isport: Probably that's the whole thing and the success story of the X6. That why probably it feels so much faster than the average X5 which frankly was considered by many the etalon of the SUV handling characteristics. '

Conclusion: P-fans beware! There's a new kind around the block, with ALOT more attractivness to it, which compared side to side with a Cayenne, ML, Q7 (aka daddy pig of them all), and touareg (aka watered down Cayenne) WILL ABSOLUTLEY SHINE and put is shadows the others which might feel now...well...outdated.

swajames

BMW (and you) can think what you like and print what they like in their marketing material, the X6 is absolutely a class or two below the Cayenne. Even if I were to accept (which I don't) that the X6 and Cayenne are competitors, it's the Turbo and Turbo S that are the true X6 50i killers - not the GTS which is the midrange model. That comes at a premium, sure, but if you have the cash to spend you simply don't care and the cost is easily rationalized. Anyone with the financial means to get the Porsche isn't going to see the X6 as being in the same class and won't worry about the cost differential (which is something BMW has traded on for years, as its buyers make the same decision when comparing BMW to other brands). Attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder, and I'm not a fan of the Cayenne styling as I've said before, but the X6 for me is one of the least successful designs to come out of BMW in recent years.

The only way you get to make a comparison is if you get the cheapest Cayennes, and then you're competing on price. You could make the same argument for competitors to the E60 - look at the debate re the Pontiac G8 GT vs the 550i - yet the perceived opinion on here is that there are reasons why the 550 costs more, and those reasons are both tangible and intangible. And so it is with Porsche. Like it or not, BMW as a brand quite simply isn't in the same league. It's a class or two below. The arguments that members on here make for BMW when comparing its product to other manufacturers don't work in reverse. BMW as a brand and as a manufacturer is a tier or two below Porsche.

The fact that BMW itself chooses Porsche as the target to use as the basis for its comparisons in the brochure you mentioned proves my points... For what it's worth, and if we're talking brand only, BMW is generally positioned below Mercedes. I won't argue that its products are (for me) much better than Mercedes, but MB is still perceived by the marketplace as a whole to be more of a premium brand - as evidenced by the number of models available that go way over the point where BMW's model range tops out in terms of price and the success of the S class compared to the 7.

Finally, at 5,259 lbs, the X6 50i is not lighter than the Cayenne. It's relative anyway. Neither is light on its feet.

If you get an X6, I'm sure you'll love it. It's just not for me.

poleposition

All good points but how can you determine the success or failure of a car that hasnt even been released yet? Will you feel as if you're proven wrong if these cars start flying off showroom floors? (which I suspect they will)

swajames

All of us are looking into the crystal ball. That said, my arguments aren't focused on whether the X6 will be successful. It may well be, after all, there's no accounting for taste - particularly here in the US! I've really been focused on ultimate performance and product positioning. There I think my arguments hold good irrespective of the car's newness to market, as we already know how BMW positions the car and what they chose as their point of comparison kind of underpins my thinking on overall market positioning. Would BMW marketers pitch the X6 against say a Nissan Murano in their brochure? Nope - it's all about aspirational marketing and reflecting your brand against one the market perceives to be of higher value. Why do so many manufacturers target BMW with their marketing spend? Exact same reason - we see countless ads trying to say that their product somehow competes with or is better than BMW. They rarely do, but by doing so they try to borrow a little prestige from the class above. My point is that that's exactly what BMW is trying do here.

poleposition

What is BMW aspiring to be here? I was of the understanding that the X6 was a new category of car/suv different from the X5 and it's competitors i.e.: Cayenne, Toaureg, ML and the like.