550isport

I'm a diehard BMW guy. I had a 04' X5 and loved it. The wife and I test drove a refreshed Cayenne S with air suspension a few months back and were underwhelmed. We thought that the Cayenne felt slightly tighter inside than an X5, but drove much larger and heavier (which it is). Not a great combination. The power was not impressive either. Amazing that 385 hp can feel merely adequate. The old X5 4.8is is a better car across the board IMHO.

So I was a bit skeptical when I drove a friend's brand new GTS cayenne yesterday. Porsche finally got it right. The grippy well bolstered seats and fat steering wheel combined with the lowered stiffened suspension make it feel much more compact and BMW-like. The engine has noticeably more grunt that than the S (kept it under 5000 revs b/c car wasn't broken in). I wonder if it's geared differently? The midrange punch makes it feel very nimble. And the ride is of the BMW ilk as well IMHO. Very stiff, plenty of vertical movement as the car follows the imperfections of the road, but well dampened and very expensive-sophisticated feeling. Like someone rolled out a thin layer of velvet over the road. So I really liked it.

BUT, here's the one question I can't stop asking myself: Why didn't they just tune the car like this in the first place????? The only answer I can come up with is a hard pill to swallow if you're a car guy. The Cayenne as we all know is a Touareg. I think that years ago the bean counters at Porsche designed the Cayenne to basically be a Touareg with only a touch of porscheness, signficant enough to lure away main stream buyers from Merc and BMW etc... Now with the GTS, it's as if the engineers finally got a chance to do to the car, what it is their famous for..tuning it to maximize performance!!! It's as if the Porsche board of directors said, okay engineers, now that we have sold enough main stream Cayennes, you can build the Cayenne the way you want it. So my wife (my reluctant audience) says to me "baby not everyone is like you. Not everyone wants stiff suspension..." And my response was. Its a f%#king Porsche!!! So my sad conclusion here is that the legacy of the Cayenne to me as an avid enthusiast is not that Porsche took on the task of producing an SUV worthy of their badge and succeeded (because IMHO only the GTS is so worthy), but rather that the executives at Porsche were brilliant enough to figure out that by mildly improving a VW and sticking a Porsche crest on the hood, they would sway enough husbands of mainstream U.S. soccer moms into buying their SUV because "it's a porsche". The Porsche Cayenne is the premiere modern automotive example of form over substance....And the GTS is like when the C student gets an A in one class and the teacher says, I've known all along you were just not working up to your potential...

Lets see what Stuttgart decides to do with the Panamera?

swajames

You're making the mistake of assuming that the X5 is lighter than the Cayenne. The X5 4.8 at 5052 lbs has always been heavier than the Cayenne S, and now the GTS too (4949 lbs and 4905 lbs respectively). I don't buy your arguments on driving dynamics of the older models. You'll find very few if any road tests that have ever put the X5 ahead of the equivalent Cayenne in that respect. It's always been a better on and off road SUV than the X5 - which is the one that you should have noted has always been heavier and relatively underpowered. Porsche makes no attempt to hide the fact that the Cayenne was created to help it fund the continued development of the 911. And that's exactly what it's done. As it happens, it's been a spectacular success and has helped to turn Porsche into the most profitable car maker on the planet. Also, at the time the Cayenne was in development, Porsche did not have a controlling interest in VW (German law, now overturned by the EU courts, forbid it) - the Cayenne and Touareg were developed cooperatively and they share less than you seem to think. The only point I will concede is on the V6 Touareg which has a VW powerplant (albeit heavily modified by Porsche engineers) and is essentially an exercise in (admittedly profitable) badge engineering. I consider other Cayenne models to be truer to the brand.

Your most egregious comment, however, was that the GTS "felt more BMW like" - as though that should be the target and as though Porsche should be taking lessons from BMW on what it means to have a sporting heritage or build the soul of sports car into its model range. BMW may be sportiest of the mainstream manufacturers, but its cars lack soul and will ultimately be found wanting when compared to Porsche and other true sports car manufacturers. BMW is much more at risk of diluting its brand - Porsche right now offers only a roadster, a coupe, the 911 and an SUV whereas BMW is pushing to be represented in every sector and offers much lower cost of entry into its brand. Where there is a reasonable model to model comparison that can be be made, the Porsche will always be the more sporting and the engineers that built it won't be looking to BMW for guidance.

Fifth Gear testing the GTS against the X5 4.8
Vicki makes the same mistake you do regarding weight...

BetterMakeWay

One advice: Drive the X6 50i !!! Then forget about any Porsche Merc or other sport SUV.

hondik

I like your argument man!

swajames

If you like driving something that weighs 5,269 lbs and looks like a Pontiac Aztek, go right ahead...

That said, I think the argument is moot as the Cayenne Turbo (and Turbo S) are lighter, quicker and ultimately better.

BetterMakeWay

Hahaha...well i wouldn't have given that advice if it hadn't come from a very well known tv journalist that tested the X6 a week ago.

He said that driving it felt the same as the old X5 redefined the sport class of the SUV. Remember though, our e60s weigh alot too but can you really tell your trouncing a 1700kg car around? I think not! And that's the real beauty of the driving experience.

PS: He drove the 3 liter version, he said that the v8 biturbo could only be a monster. Think of the tunning potential. If the straight six biturbo petrol can reach 380 bhp with some remap and an exhaust then the V8 can do 500bhp or so just as easy.

Too bad i don't have the mag where it points out how fast the X6 is compared to Porsche cayman, Prosche GTS, etc etc.

Also that's the same guy that told me that X6 beat maserti (grand sport if i recall correctly) on a track, but i don't know more, nor was i able to find the article.

poleposition

I too recently got a chance to drive a GTS and it was fantastic. I really loved the fit and finish of the interior. I'm diehard BMW as well as you all know but I was thoroughly impressed with the Porsche. If it wasnt so economically advantageous to get another BMW for my wife after the X5, I would consider the Cayenne. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, it wouldnt be fiscally responsible of me to give up the loyalty perks, the CCA rebate AND the familiarity of my dealer having purchased 8 BMW's from them. It would take ALOT to get me into another marques showroom.

swajames

If we're talking forced induction, the Porsche turbo engine is just as easy to remap as the BMW TT engine. If we're talking stock, the X6 V8 at 5,269 lbs with "just" 400hp isn't going to be spectacularly quick.

FRANK970

Everytime I see an X6, I think Aztek as well. It will be interesting to see if BMW can pull off a high priced SUV that reminds people of a just terrible GM product from ten years ago.

550isport

Frist off, I love porsche. I am waiting for the day that I can afford to have a 911 as my second vehicle. I respect your vehement defense of the brand. However, IMHO Porsche's sterling reputation arises entirely of its development of the 911; an inherently flawed design that Porsche has perfected over the generations. But I find the Cayenne absent of nearly all hallmark Porsche innovations. Porsche is renouned for its flat 6 boxer engine...Cayenne doesn't have one. Porsches are also renouned for rear engine/mid engine handling dynamics. Cayenne has a V8 up front (there are some Porschephiles who don't even consider the 928 a real porsche because of its front engine V8). I will conceded that the superior monoblock brake caliper design carries over nicely to all Porsche vehicles (but it was developed to maximize the unique grip that all four tires have in a true rear engine car - like, you guessed it, the 911).

As for the Cayenne's curb weight, it is a tad heavier than an X5: 2005 X5 I-6 auto - 4651.8 (lbs.); 2005 Cayenne V6 auto - 4784; 2005 X5 V8 4.4 auto 5013.1; 2005 Cayenne 4.5 auto 5192. True I am citing data from the first generation X5, but the Cayenne is still in its first generation so it really is an apples to apples comparison. And you, good sir, may want to fasten your seatbelt. The pictures of the second generation Cayenne look a lot like the X6!

Porsche lifted BMW's ARS, active roll stabilization, and renamed it PDCC for the Cayenne. As you may recall, It was first introduced by BMW 6 years ago on the 2003 7 series (went on sale in late 2002). The 911 demonstrates impressive packaging and engineering feats, the Cayenne, not so much.

Porsche is a name that will forever be synonymous with performance and exclusivity. It does not necessarily follow that every vehicle they put their badge on will be as successful against its respective competitors as the 911 has been in its niche.

As I mentioned before, I took a test drive in the new Cayenne 4.8 S. What I did not mention was that I drove a 4.5 S a while back for a week. I am very familiar with the car and its abilities. I drive very very fast, and not only so in a straight line. The Cayenne's dynamics IMHO just aren't significantly better than an X5's despite the significant price difference between equivalent models (save for the GTS). Now add to that the conspicuous absence of bluetooth, heads up display, real time traffic navigation, 20 way power seats, heated steering wheel (now avail. on 08' Cayenne I believe), included maintenance etc, etc..and the choice is easy. You said it yourself, the Cayenne is a profiteering exercise. Why would Porsche spend $ on R & D of technology just for the Cayenne that isn't in the 911?

The proof will be in the pudding. Let's see if the Panamera is compelling enough to lure buyers away from the voluptuous, soulful, elegant and idiosyncratic Quattroporte and/or forthcoming Rapide. My vote is no. Porsche holds no advantage against Maserati or Aston Martin in the status/name recognition game, and so if the Panamera suceeds it will have to be on the strength of its driving dynamics alone. Unless there is a flat 6 out back, I don't see the Panamera offering any advantage in driving dynamics beyond the inherent benefit it will enjoy as a new design using the latest technology. That is until they release the Panamera GTS in, ah lets see, 2013. Bon chance.

DRP