Performance Sub-Forum, Thread Moving, Moderation, etc.
11-25-2006, 01:32 PM
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Hey Guys,
There's several threads debating the same issue so let's try to condense the issues into this thread. Let me preface this by saying, why do such issues always come up during holidays?!
In any event...
First, there's not going to be a performance sub-forum created. I don't see the need at all. There's so very few threads created about performance. The justification of such a sub-forum now is to settle an argument and that's just not why we create sub-forums. In the past Znod created several performance threads and they stayed put in the main E60 Discussion forum, why? The answer is that he was only talking about the E60 and in really great detail. The moment anyone creates a thread comparing the E60 to Car XYZ, performance or otherwise, that thread is going to be moved to the Competition sub-forum where it belongs. There's absolutely nothing to debate here.
On the other hand, I read and remember that a couple of threads were moved to the Meet&Greet sub-forum in the past that led to some controversy too. I believe the issue with those was the setting. I'd agree that those were questionable but you also need to look at the big picture. When I read the forum and I see a thread that begins with a couple of people meeting together with their E60's.. I'd think to immediately move it to the Meet&Greet forum regardless of what occured during that meet. To me, the big picture is the meet itself. I wouldn't care if that thread/meeting talked about performance, or mods, or cooking eggs on the cars hood. Such threads, to me, clearly belong in the Meet&Greet forum. You also have to remember that thread topics change and evolve over time occasionally which adds even more confusion. So, unfortunately, there's no answer to this one. Thread's are going to be moved, no one should take offense to that.
Let's say for example I install a turbo-charger that gives me an extra 100 HP. Surely there will be performance figures mentioned in the thread, however it's going to end up in the Parts,Accessories and Mods forum because afterall, it is a mod. While this might illustrate the need for a Performance sub-forum to some, to me it just illustrates much more confusion if we create such a sub-forum. If we did have both forums, then moving my hypotheical thread would be highly questionable. To which sub-forum would it belong, mods or performance? We dislike ambiguity. As it stands now, the hypothetical thread clearly belongs in the Mods forum. The same applies for the E60 vs. Car XYZ threads that belong in the Competition sub-forum without any shred of doubt along with almost 99% of threads which are moved for usually obvious reasons. We're discussing the 1% of threads which are questionable and well, we're not going to be able to please everyone. But again, thread's are going to be moved and no one should take offense to that.
In terms of moderation I've read comments in the prior threads that I was hoping to never see here on the forums. Let me start off by saying I'm not defending Iceman or Rudy here, they do things I might not do. We all don't agree, we're all human, and no one's perfect. Essentially, the comments were calling our moderators "power hungry". It's my belief that this recent conflict has led people to think that Iceman moves every single post, and that's simply not true. He moves many, so does Rudy, so do I, and Dave too sometimes. I'm really damned upset at such comments. Since we've added our moderators they've done nothing but what's requested of them, with little of their own discretion. If there's a conflict, Dave or I want to hear about it first, publically or privately. Don't bash our moderators. We're all only trying to keep the house in relative order.
I don't know if I've really answered any questions, but I just wanted to get my thoughts out there. Please keep any further discussion on these topics in this thread only.
Mark
There's several threads debating the same issue so let's try to condense the issues into this thread. Let me preface this by saying, why do such issues always come up during holidays?!
In any event...
First, there's not going to be a performance sub-forum created. I don't see the need at all. There's so very few threads created about performance. The justification of such a sub-forum now is to settle an argument and that's just not why we create sub-forums. In the past Znod created several performance threads and they stayed put in the main E60 Discussion forum, why? The answer is that he was only talking about the E60 and in really great detail. The moment anyone creates a thread comparing the E60 to Car XYZ, performance or otherwise, that thread is going to be moved to the Competition sub-forum where it belongs. There's absolutely nothing to debate here.
On the other hand, I read and remember that a couple of threads were moved to the Meet&Greet sub-forum in the past that led to some controversy too. I believe the issue with those was the setting. I'd agree that those were questionable but you also need to look at the big picture. When I read the forum and I see a thread that begins with a couple of people meeting together with their E60's.. I'd think to immediately move it to the Meet&Greet forum regardless of what occured during that meet. To me, the big picture is the meet itself. I wouldn't care if that thread/meeting talked about performance, or mods, or cooking eggs on the cars hood. Such threads, to me, clearly belong in the Meet&Greet forum. You also have to remember that thread topics change and evolve over time occasionally which adds even more confusion. So, unfortunately, there's no answer to this one. Thread's are going to be moved, no one should take offense to that.
Let's say for example I install a turbo-charger that gives me an extra 100 HP. Surely there will be performance figures mentioned in the thread, however it's going to end up in the Parts,Accessories and Mods forum because afterall, it is a mod. While this might illustrate the need for a Performance sub-forum to some, to me it just illustrates much more confusion if we create such a sub-forum. If we did have both forums, then moving my hypotheical thread would be highly questionable. To which sub-forum would it belong, mods or performance? We dislike ambiguity. As it stands now, the hypothetical thread clearly belongs in the Mods forum. The same applies for the E60 vs. Car XYZ threads that belong in the Competition sub-forum without any shred of doubt along with almost 99% of threads which are moved for usually obvious reasons. We're discussing the 1% of threads which are questionable and well, we're not going to be able to please everyone. But again, thread's are going to be moved and no one should take offense to that.
In terms of moderation I've read comments in the prior threads that I was hoping to never see here on the forums. Let me start off by saying I'm not defending Iceman or Rudy here, they do things I might not do. We all don't agree, we're all human, and no one's perfect. Essentially, the comments were calling our moderators "power hungry". It's my belief that this recent conflict has led people to think that Iceman moves every single post, and that's simply not true. He moves many, so does Rudy, so do I, and Dave too sometimes. I'm really damned upset at such comments. Since we've added our moderators they've done nothing but what's requested of them, with little of their own discretion. If there's a conflict, Dave or I want to hear about it first, publically or privately. Don't bash our moderators. We're all only trying to keep the house in relative order.
I don't know if I've really answered any questions, but I just wanted to get my thoughts out there. Please keep any further discussion on these topics in this thread only.
Mark
11-25-2006, 01:48 PM
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Hi Mark:
Nice post. I understand your logic, but I don't agree with it. I won't go into all the details of why not. My overall issue with your logic is that what many of us think of as 5er performance topics get spread across four forums--which we don't see as a good thing. And, even in the case of a 5er performance mod, I think that the proper place for discussion of the mod is with the rest of the 5er performance topics provided that performance is the primary focus of the thread.
Best,
Znod
Nice post. I understand your logic, but I don't agree with it. I won't go into all the details of why not. My overall issue with your logic is that what many of us think of as 5er performance topics get spread across four forums--which we don't see as a good thing. And, even in the case of a 5er performance mod, I think that the proper place for discussion of the mod is with the rest of the 5er performance topics provided that performance is the primary focus of the thread.
Best,
Znod
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