BMW to import diesels into the U.S.!
05-09-2005, 11:17 AM
#91
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Originally Posted by clived' date='May 9 2005, 12:03 PM
[quote name='swajames' date='May 9 2005, 05:31 PM']to be fair Clive I did mention the 50 to 75 stats, and said that I could not find a published US stat for that from BMW USA before saying that when I punched it this morning from 50 I got to 75 way faster than the 5.8 second number you found.?
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Clive
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[/quote]understood, I see your point and I think at the end of the day we're both right
Keep the car in 4th and torque would win from 50 to 75, kick down and use higher revs/rpm and the outcome is probably different. This is an indication of the differences in how you should or could drive gas vs diesel. To get the best out of the V8 you want to keep the revs high (and the V8 engine is very rev happy) so I guess it's an indication of how you drive the car. Personally, if I'm accelerating from 50 to 75, in fourth gear, and I'm in a V8, I make sure I kick down, hence my comments on the 5.8 number being way off from real world. At 50 mph in 4th the V8 is barely running over idle speed! 
05-09-2005, 11:31 AM
#92
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It's a shame we have the ocean between us as I think I've found someone who would be genuinely interested in doing "the experiment"! 
05-09-2005, 12:10 PM
#93
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Originally Posted by clived' date='May 9 2005, 12:31 PM
It's a shame we have the ocean between us as I think I've found someone who would be genuinely interested in doing "the experiment"!
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Would have loved to - and from what we've seen on this thread it looks like it would probably be pretty close - one way or the other 
.
05-09-2005, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by clived' date='May 9 2005, 02:03 PM
[quote name='swajames' date='May 9 2005, 05:31 PM']to be fair Clive I did mention the 50 to 75 stats, and said that I could not find a published US stat for that from BMW USA before saying that when I punched it this morning from 50 I got to 75 way faster than the 5.8 second number you found.??
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Clive
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[/quote]Model Power 50 - 75
525d - 177bhp - 6.5 secs
530d - 218bhp - 5.4 secs
535d - 272bhp - 4.8 secs (estimate based on power difference between each model)
Would you agree?
05-09-2005, 12:50 PM
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My Ride: BMW 545iA Black Sapphire
Model Year: 2005
Engine: 545i
First off, I can assure 545i owners that the 530d and 535d are very well made packages. I have driven both.
Driving to work when I'm on duty, I usually run into a colleauge and good friend with a 530d, and most of the time we end up having some "fun". I can confirm, even the 530d is quite respectable out of the traffic lights and the 535d would probably be the same for the first 200m or so.
Now regarding the "in gear acceleration". Same gear @ the same speed floored, the diesels will have the advantage. No doubt in my mind. Those speeds are given
by manufacturers so a driver can estimate his overtaking capabilities in the realm of active safety. Torque is the winner here.
People mention "real world". Well, I can assure you, in a V8, when I'm having fun on the highway, I am in the realm of dynamic driving. The numbers above don't apply anymore, because simply, I am in a gear/rpm state where flooring the gas will catapault you and make you cry. ( 545i owners will empathize : 3rd gear, 3500rpm > floor it! ). swajames makes this point above correctly.
Going back to my colleauge on the highway, I notice the point where the diesel loses out when flooring it, there's not enough rpm range. When I am behind him, and we both floor it, after a short distance he WILL have to yield and go to the right.
The 535d will obviously have a longer respectable distance to enjoy and will certainly give the 545i a run for it's money...but at some point will also have to yield and let the 545i overtake. I find the opposite situation highly doubtful, and this is where Iceman has more experience in expressing his opinion since he drives on unrestricted autobahns everyday of his life and probably has seen more
"real life " high speed - in gear acceleration situations than most of us.
Lastly, lets not forget the PRIME objective of building the BMW diesel variant and the V8. Take away reason of fuel economics, price ratio and logic and your left with the V8. I am not condoning efficiency here, but I don't see the point of basing the purchase on logic and efficiency and then tune to get max performance.
Most of us here in Europe know the reasons of doing that, is mostly based from fuel and road taxes criteria to how many km per year we drive.
I do admit the BMW diesel technology is outstanding but I love the reason the V8 was built for. 
Driving to work when I'm on duty, I usually run into a colleauge and good friend with a 530d, and most of the time we end up having some "fun". I can confirm, even the 530d is quite respectable out of the traffic lights and the 535d would probably be the same for the first 200m or so.
Now regarding the "in gear acceleration". Same gear @ the same speed floored, the diesels will have the advantage. No doubt in my mind. Those speeds are given
by manufacturers so a driver can estimate his overtaking capabilities in the realm of active safety. Torque is the winner here.
People mention "real world". Well, I can assure you, in a V8, when I'm having fun on the highway, I am in the realm of dynamic driving. The numbers above don't apply anymore, because simply, I am in a gear/rpm state where flooring the gas will catapault you and make you cry. ( 545i owners will empathize : 3rd gear, 3500rpm > floor it! ). swajames makes this point above correctly.
Going back to my colleauge on the highway, I notice the point where the diesel loses out when flooring it, there's not enough rpm range. When I am behind him, and we both floor it, after a short distance he WILL have to yield and go to the right.
The 535d will obviously have a longer respectable distance to enjoy and will certainly give the 545i a run for it's money...but at some point will also have to yield and let the 545i overtake. I find the opposite situation highly doubtful, and this is where Iceman has more experience in expressing his opinion since he drives on unrestricted autobahns everyday of his life and probably has seen more
"real life " high speed - in gear acceleration situations than most of us.
Lastly, lets not forget the PRIME objective of building the BMW diesel variant and the V8. Take away reason of fuel economics, price ratio and logic and your left with the V8. I am not condoning efficiency here, but I don't see the point of basing the purchase on logic and efficiency and then tune to get max performance.
Most of us here in Europe know the reasons of doing that, is mostly based from fuel and road taxes criteria to how many km per year we drive.
I do admit the BMW diesel technology is outstanding
but I love the reason the V8 was built for.
05-09-2005, 01:01 PM
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Merv - not really scientifically sound I don't think as a) in this instance we really do need to be comparing torque not power and b) there probably is not a linear scaling as you suggest. Like power - doubling your power does not give you a car twice as fast 
Andy - now you *REALLY* make me want to try it - thanks for your great post. I think the 535d is a fair bit faster (across the rev range) than a 530d and I *know* a remapped 535d is significantly quicker than a standard 535d - the remapped 535d against more expensive 545i is, I must admit, the test I really want to see - 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, 0-60, and various rolling increments - come on UK 545i owners with all transmissions, show yourselves!
I've just realised that I've never posted to say that I'm sure that the 545i is an *outstanding* motorcar, and that I'm sure it has a fun factor as you climb through the revs that the 535d can't offer - if nothing else, the sound would win me over if I were looking for a pure peformance / fun machine
Andy - now you *REALLY* make me want to try it - thanks for your great post. I think the 535d is a fair bit faster (across the rev range) than a 530d and I *know* a remapped 535d is significantly quicker than a standard 535d - the remapped 535d against more expensive 545i is, I must admit, the test I really want to see - 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, 0-60, and various rolling increments - come on UK 545i owners with all transmissions, show yourselves!
I've just realised that I've never posted to say that I'm sure that the 545i is an *outstanding* motorcar, and that I'm sure it has a fun factor as you climb through the revs that the 535d can't offer - if nothing else, the sound would win me over if I were looking for a pure peformance / fun machine
05-09-2005, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by clived' date='May 9 2005, 04:01 PM
Merv - not really scientifically sound I don't think as a) in this instance we really do need to be comparing torque not power and b) there probably is not a linear scaling as you suggest. Like power - doubling your power does not give you a car twice as fast
Andy - now you *REALLY* make me want to try it - thanks for your great post. I think the 535d is a fair bit faster (across the rev range) than a 530d and I *know* a remapped 535d is significantly quicker than a standard 535d - the remapped 535d against more expensive 545i is, I must admit, the test I really want to see - 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, 0-60, and various rolling increments - come on UK 545i owners with all transmissions, show yourselves!
I've just realised that I've never posted to say that I'm sure that the 545i is an *outstanding* motorcar, and that I'm sure it has a fun factor as you climb through the revs that the 535d can't offer - if nothing else, the sound would win me over if I were looking for a pure peformance / fun machine
Andy - now you *REALLY* make me want to try it - thanks for your great post. I think the 535d is a fair bit faster (across the rev range) than a 530d and I *know* a remapped 535d is significantly quicker than a standard 535d - the remapped 535d against more expensive 545i is, I must admit, the test I really want to see - 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, 0-60, and various rolling increments - come on UK 545i owners with all transmissions, show yourselves!
I've just realised that I've never posted to say that I'm sure that the 545i is an *outstanding* motorcar, and that I'm sure it has a fun factor as you climb through the revs that the 535d can't offer - if nothing else, the sound would win me over if I were looking for a pure peformance / fun machine
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UK member JayEl has a 545i. I don't think I've seen another UK member with one.
If we can't arrange a test track day here in the UK lets go to the Iceman! I'd certainly welcome the chance to try out the Autobhan thing
What do you think?
05-09-2005, 01:26 PM
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I think to get the timing gear required for the 1/8 and 1/4 mile we need to go to Santa Pod...
05-09-2005, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by clived' date='May 9 2005, 04:26 PM
I think to get the timing gear required for the 1/8 and 1/4 mile we need to go to Santa Pod...
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I'm working on the 545i experiment see my last topic and poll. If all else fails I will take a test-drive
05-09-2005, 01:46 PM
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Merv and Clived,
Get your Dervs across the moat to Franfurt and run some tests against the Iceman. Not only will you guys answer the question but you will have a blast doing it. Then publish your results. Many will be interested. Heck rent some time at the ring and let us know.
Get your Dervs across the moat to Franfurt and run some tests against the Iceman. Not only will you guys answer the question but you will have a blast doing it. Then publish your results. Many will be interested. Heck rent some time at the ring and let us know.