M3 & Ebay
03-27-2008, 09:56 AM
#21
Members
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2008 535xiT (E61)
Black Sapphire / Black Leather / bamboo.
Steptronic, Full Aero Kit, 35% Tints. 18" Run Flats.
All the goodies short of Active Cruise, Comfort Access and the safty options.
2002 BMW R1150R. Red, Corbin, PIAAs, Fiamm,
Originally Posted by MiamiPhill' post='551734' date='Mar 27 2008, 12:41 PM
Damn! now the attorneys are posting on the thread....... 
I am Dooma350's (Ken?s) attorney. (The mods who see this post will also see from my IP address that it correlates to the law firm which is representing Ken.) Ken has asked that I respond to the post from Lincoln BMW?s attorney. Here is my response.
First, we aren?t playing games.
Second, Ken has done everything requested of him by the dealership in a timely manner. And he will continue to cooperate because his only goal is to get his car for the price he agreed to pay in the auction. We hope that will finally occur tomorrow. Ken has a BMW meet to go to on Sunday.
Third, neither I nor Mr. Maledon was listening in on Ken?s call with Mr. Catania. But it sounds about right to me that Ken would be importuned, again, by Mr. Catania to ?control the press? (although that?s about as easy as ?stopping the tides?).
It?s pretty clear why Mr. Catania wanted this to go away. Ken?s posts have unleashed a powerful swell of interest from all over the planet, focusing everyone?s attention on one seemingly insignificant eBay transaction where, after Ken was told he had won, he was then told by the dealership that his victory was a ?mistake? and wouldn?t be honored. The mistake theme is repeated in Mr. Maledon?s post.
The seemingly insignificant eBay transaction wasn?t a trifling for Ken. To him it had significance, and his frustration in consummating it reverberated through the Web to those who themselves, or through others, have suffered losses from the so-called ?mistakes? of wealthy businesses. The seemingly insignificant eBay transaction, reported by Ken on the Web to seek help from others, gave everyone a voice, and an opportunity to speak his peace, for some to disagree but for most to lend a hand, provide a word of encouragement, or a suggestion, or a helpful observation, or sometimes just to vent.
Into this maelstrom came a dealer that still doesn?t get it and wants it all to just go away. And that dealer is finally, begrudgingly, agreeing to the deal it should have manned up to last week. And only after Ken retained legal counsel to help him.
What?s the lesson to be learned? The Internet now allows us all to see when the emperor has no clothes, and to discuss his wardrobe incessantly. But it also allows people who have never met each other to get together and do something for the positive good, and to exchange ideas and support, and to learn from the mistakes of others.
Ken wishes Lincoln BMW no ill. All he wants is his car, at the agreed upon purchase price. And we are now told that will happen soon. But he also wants the right to speak out, to continue to speak out and, as Justice Louis D. Brandeis wrote, to allow ?sunshine [to be] the best disinfectant.?
Mr. Maledon is an honorable man, representing his client?s interests. Please do not attack him or impugn his motives. The dispute is not with him. And Lincoln BMW is entitled to have its position articulated here, and anywhere else where it desires to be heard. However, there is no way that Ken will (or can) ?control the press? or help Lincoln BMW ?make this all go away.? That power lies elsewhere.
I am Dooma350's (Ken?s) attorney. (The mods who see this post will also see from my IP address that it correlates to the law firm which is representing Ken.) Ken has asked that I respond to the post from Lincoln BMW?s attorney. Here is my response.
First, we aren?t playing games.
Second, Ken has done everything requested of him by the dealership in a timely manner. And he will continue to cooperate because his only goal is to get his car for the price he agreed to pay in the auction. We hope that will finally occur tomorrow. Ken has a BMW meet to go to on Sunday.
Third, neither I nor Mr. Maledon was listening in on Ken?s call with Mr. Catania. But it sounds about right to me that Ken would be importuned, again, by Mr. Catania to ?control the press? (although that?s about as easy as ?stopping the tides?).
It?s pretty clear why Mr. Catania wanted this to go away. Ken?s posts have unleashed a powerful swell of interest from all over the planet, focusing everyone?s attention on one seemingly insignificant eBay transaction where, after Ken was told he had won, he was then told by the dealership that his victory was a ?mistake? and wouldn?t be honored. The mistake theme is repeated in Mr. Maledon?s post.
The seemingly insignificant eBay transaction wasn?t a trifling for Ken. To him it had significance, and his frustration in consummating it reverberated through the Web to those who themselves, or through others, have suffered losses from the so-called ?mistakes? of wealthy businesses. The seemingly insignificant eBay transaction, reported by Ken on the Web to seek help from others, gave everyone a voice, and an opportunity to speak his peace, for some to disagree but for most to lend a hand, provide a word of encouragement, or a suggestion, or a helpful observation, or sometimes just to vent.
Into this maelstrom came a dealer that still doesn?t get it and wants it all to just go away. And that dealer is finally, begrudgingly, agreeing to the deal it should have manned up to last week. And only after Ken retained legal counsel to help him.
What?s the lesson to be learned? The Internet now allows us all to see when the emperor has no clothes, and to discuss his wardrobe incessantly. But it also allows people who have never met each other to get together and do something for the positive good, and to exchange ideas and support, and to learn from the mistakes of others.
Ken wishes Lincoln BMW no ill. All he wants is his car, at the agreed upon purchase price. And we are now told that will happen soon. But he also wants the right to speak out, to continue to speak out and, as Justice Louis D. Brandeis wrote, to allow ?sunshine [to be] the best disinfectant.?
Mr. Maledon is an honorable man, representing his client?s interests. Please do not attack him or impugn his motives. The dispute is not with him. And Lincoln BMW is entitled to have its position articulated here, and anywhere else where it desires to be heard. However, there is no way that Ken will (or can) ?control the press? or help Lincoln BMW ?make this all go away.? That power lies elsewhere.
This is just brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!
This would have never happened 5 years ago. Amazing!!!!!!
03-27-2008, 10:09 AM
#22
Senior Members
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: BANGLADESH
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2005 530i Individual, DVD Package, HUD, Bluetooth, Comfort Seats, SR, etc
Hmmmm so still no M3 for Ken....... should I call my brothers from the Russian Mafia to settle this once and for all?? One phone call KEN....we will DEAL with it....!!
03-27-2008, 10:59 AM
#23
Senior Members
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2008 BMW 550i Sport
Carbon Black Metallic/Cream Beige
Manny tranny and other stuff
Recently gone, but never forgotten:
2005 Ford Mustang GT (hence the name)
Torch Red/Crimson
Manny tranny and every option available for that year
2002 Chrysler 300M Special
Brilliant Black/Light Taupe/Dark Slate
Autostick and goo-gobs of neat features that I will sorely miss
Originally Posted by gene1' post='550398' date='Mar 25 2008, 07:08 AM
Anyone know what the invoice is on this? Somehow I don't think the dealer is going to actually take a hit on this sale.
But still amazing.
But still amazing.
03-27-2008, 10:41 PM
#24
Members
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: Current - MY2008 530i comfort access,active steering, HUD, prof nav/TV, bluetootth etc .....
Old - 2006 530i comfort access, active steering, HUD, NAV/TV, Bluetooth
Great story, yet another ebaysucks example.
So it appears that the dealer is going to honor the agreement.
Can someone explain to me (a non US resident) why Ken (the buyer) has to foot the bill he incurred to pursue the dealer and have them honor the agreement?
So it appears that the dealer is going to honor the agreement.
Can someone explain to me (a non US resident) why Ken (the buyer) has to foot the bill he incurred to pursue the dealer and have them honor the agreement?
03-28-2008, 04:12 AM
#25
Contributors
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 545i
Model Year: 2004
Engine: N62
I wish Ken all of the best and hope all turns out in his favor. A deal is a deal. If the tables were turned and Ken opted out of the auction, I am sure the dealership would have pursued legal recourse against him. They entered a binding contract in which one party is backing out of. It is not Ken's fault the Internet Dept. at the dealership made a costly mistake. They should eat that and chalk it up to experience. More importantly, if/when Ken gets the M3, I hope he has another dealership lined up to take the car in for service. 
Good Luck Ken, we are behind you!
Good Luck Ken, we are behind you!
03-28-2008, 07:03 AM
#26
Members
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2008 535xiT (E61)
Black Sapphire / Black Leather / bamboo.
Steptronic, Full Aero Kit, 35% Tints. 18" Run Flats.
All the goodies short of Active Cruise, Comfort Access and the safty options.
2002 BMW R1150R. Red, Corbin, PIAAs, Fiamm,
Originally Posted by faarcanal' post='552128' date='Mar 28 2008, 02:41 AM
Great story, yet another ebaysucks example.
So it appears that the dealer is going to honor the agreement.
Can someone explain to me (a non US resident) why Ken (the buyer) has to foot the bill he incurred to pursue the dealer and have them honor the agreement?
So it appears that the dealer is going to honor the agreement.
Can someone explain to me (a non US resident) why Ken (the buyer) has to foot the bill he incurred to pursue the dealer and have them honor the agreement?
I'm sure if this had gone to court he would have sued for legal costs, as it didn't he has to pay the attorney for representing him.
I don't imagine its any different in the southern hemisphere. Its all just 14th Century English Common Law isn't it then chap?
The attorney gets paid for talking to the guy on the other guys behalf (just like a mobster would), the boy gets his car and Bob's your uncle.
03-28-2008, 07:19 AM
#27
Senior Members
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
My Ride: 2008 535i:
(8/07 Build) Metallic Bronze, Beige NASCA Leather, Ventilated Seats, Sport Pkg, Cold Wxr Pkg, Logic-7 Sound, HUD, Night Vision, PDC, Split Rear Seats, NAV, Premium Pkg, Comfort Access, HD Radio, Sport Auto Trans
Current mods: M-Aero Kit, JB4, Motorcepts 6000k HID Foglamps
Umnitza ICE-Lite 10w LED 6000k AE's
1992 Camaro RS:
Fully Restored w/Custom Interior, 5.0L V8, T-tops, OEM Z28 Foglamps, Inst Cluster, & Spoiler, Custom Sound, Too many engine mods to list
Originally Posted by faarcanal' post='552128' date='Mar 28 2008, 02:41 AM
Can someone explain to me (a non US resident) why Ken (the buyer) has to foot the bill he incurred to pursue the dealer and have them honor the agreement?
I doubt at this point, Ken's legal fees aren't much since the only thing his lawyer has done was open legal dialogue with BMW.
Now if this goes to litigation, Ken could ultimately sue BMW for legal fees paid, and if he wins he will get most if not all of his money that he spent back.
I can't believe BMW screwed this up so bad. First they re-neg on an Ebay transaction and then they try to get the buyer to agree to the b/s stipulations. They really need to get some smarter people involved and settle this quickly.
03-28-2008, 09:14 AM
#28
Members
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2008 535xiT (E61)
Black Sapphire / Black Leather / bamboo.
Steptronic, Full Aero Kit, 35% Tints. 18" Run Flats.
All the goodies short of Active Cruise, Comfort Access and the safty options.
2002 BMW R1150R. Red, Corbin, PIAAs, Fiamm,
Originally Posted by pukka' post='552265' date='Mar 28 2008, 11:19 AM
Unfortunately in the U.S., retaining a lawyer is the only sure way to get a big business's attention. Public opinion can only go so far unless it costs BMW money (loss of sales, etc.) There are other methods (Better Business Bureau, Comsumer Hotline) but they just aren't as effective.
I doubt at this point, Ken's legal fees aren't much since the only thing his lawyer has done was open legal dialogue with BMW.
Now if this goes to litigation, Ken could ultimately sue BMW for legal fees paid, and if he wins he will get most if not all of his money that he spent back.
I can't believe BMW screwed this up so bad. First they re-neg on an Ebay transaction and then they try to get the buyer to agree to the b/s stipulations. They really need to get some smarter people involved and settle this quickly.
I doubt at this point, Ken's legal fees aren't much since the only thing his lawyer has done was open legal dialogue with BMW.
Now if this goes to litigation, Ken could ultimately sue BMW for legal fees paid, and if he wins he will get most if not all of his money that he spent back.
I can't believe BMW screwed this up so bad. First they re-neg on an Ebay transaction and then they try to get the buyer to agree to the b/s stipulations. They really need to get some smarter people involved and settle this quickly.
This had nothing to do with BMW directly. This was dealer issue. True, the franchise does have sway and responsibility, but both are limited.
03-28-2008, 10:02 AM
#29
Members
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: Current - MY2008 530i comfort access,active steering, HUD, prof nav/TV, bluetootth etc .....
Old - 2006 530i comfort access, active steering, HUD, NAV/TV, Bluetooth
Gene, you are correct our law is based on british common law .... just thought from reading the story, where the buyer commented on a legal fee that took the cumulative price of the car close to the RRP, so it must have been in the order of $30K and that he had settled with the seller for the original deal, that the US must have deviated from common law.
My only exposure to US law is from the media (read Judge Judy) .
My only exposure to US law is from the media (read Judge Judy)
.
Originally Posted by gene1' post='552257' date='Mar 29 2008, 01:03 AM
I'm sure if this had gone to court he would have sued for legal costs, as it didn't he has to pay the attorney for representing him.
I don't imagine its any different in the southern hemisphere. Its all just 14th Century English Common Law isn't it then chap?
The attorney gets paid for talking to the guy on the other guys behalf (just like a mobster would), the boy gets his car and Bob's your uncle.
I don't imagine its any different in the southern hemisphere. Its all just 14th Century English Common Law isn't it then chap?
The attorney gets paid for talking to the guy on the other guys behalf (just like a mobster would), the boy gets his car and Bob's your uncle.
03-28-2008, 10:56 AM
#30
Senior Members
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
My Ride: 2008 535i:
(8/07 Build) Metallic Bronze, Beige NASCA Leather, Ventilated Seats, Sport Pkg, Cold Wxr Pkg, Logic-7 Sound, HUD, Night Vision, PDC, Split Rear Seats, NAV, Premium Pkg, Comfort Access, HD Radio, Sport Auto Trans
Current mods: M-Aero Kit, JB4, Motorcepts 6000k HID Foglamps
Umnitza ICE-Lite 10w LED 6000k AE's
1992 Camaro RS:
Fully Restored w/Custom Interior, 5.0L V8, T-tops, OEM Z28 Foglamps, Inst Cluster, & Spoiler, Custom Sound, Too many engine mods to list
Originally Posted by gene1' post='552309' date='Mar 28 2008, 12:14 PM
Pukka,
This had nothing to do with BMW directly. This was dealer issue. True, the franchise does have sway and responsibility, but both are limited.
This had nothing to do with BMW directly. This was dealer issue. True, the franchise does have sway and responsibility, but both are limited.
Its been awhile since I took Business Law, but I always thought an agent's (in this case - salesperson/dealership) actions when conducting business are an extension of the corporation and both can be held liable for such actions.