When cops harass you for driving a nice car...
03-22-2006, 09:00 PM
#41
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my tint i think is about 35-40%, nothing very dark. You can easily see in. And no, I'm an idiot and just had the license plate sitting in the passenger seat.
Saying that I was trying to impress my girlfriend is just plain stupid. How am I trying to impress my girlfriend, by not having a back plate?...does that impress your girlfriend? Sure as hell doesn't make a difference to mine. And I don't have an "I can do what I want attitude". Do you know me? Do you think that b/c I got pulled over and I'm angry b/c the cop was disrespectful and condescening means that I'm just some spoiled punk who does whatever he pleases? And did I ever say a cop couldn't afford a 5 series? NO. Make sure you check your quotes correctly before you start throwing insults out. And yes my father bought me a 5 series. Like I haven't heard some "creative" remark like that before...
TrueBlue, I understand that you may be trying to defend law enforcement, and rightfully so b/c many of them do their job above and beyond what is expected, and I respect you for your opinion. And I want you to know that I am in NO WAY trying to get into an endless and childish "forum fight". But when you start mis-quoting and insulting me, you are just plain out of line and it makes you look disrespectful and rude just like those cops were last night. I respect your opinion and understand where you're coming from, now for a moment try and understand where I'm coming from, and that PERHAPS...I'm actually telling the truth.
Originally Posted by TrueBlue' post='258618' date='Mar 22 2006, 03:02 PM
If it means one day of not showing off w/ your girlfriend while you go to the hardware store and affix the plate, so be it.
Don't have such a "I can do what I want" attitude, and you'll run into few problems.
Uhh, and alot of cops easily make $70k+ a year, don't think that they're all Barney Fife look-alikes. If they want a 5 series, they'll buy one just like you....I mean...your dad did...
Don't have such a "I can do what I want" attitude, and you'll run into few problems.
Uhh, and alot of cops easily make $70k+ a year, don't think that they're all Barney Fife look-alikes. If they want a 5 series, they'll buy one just like you....I mean...your dad did...
TrueBlue, I understand that you may be trying to defend law enforcement, and rightfully so b/c many of them do their job above and beyond what is expected, and I respect you for your opinion. And I want you to know that I am in NO WAY trying to get into an endless and childish "forum fight". But when you start mis-quoting and insulting me, you are just plain out of line and it makes you look disrespectful and rude just like those cops were last night. I respect your opinion and understand where you're coming from, now for a moment try and understand where I'm coming from, and that PERHAPS...I'm actually telling the truth.
03-22-2006, 09:05 PM
#42
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I am just a little angry b/c it LOOKED as if the cops wanted nothing to do with me until they pulled up behind me. Perhaps they were just looking in the car to see what they were dealing with. And if that was the case then that's fine. But their attitude, inappropriate remarks, and disrespect towards me was out of line.
And believe me, my girlfriend is one to call me on b.s. in a second on stuff like this. And she was actually the first to say that she couldn't believe how they were acting towards me. She actually wanted to say something to them b/c she couldn't understand why they were being so condescending and insulting...I didn't let her b/c that obviously would not have helped the situation
And believe me, my girlfriend is one to call me on b.s. in a second on stuff like this. And she was actually the first to say that she couldn't believe how they were acting towards me. She actually wanted to say something to them b/c she couldn't understand why they were being so condescending and insulting...I didn't let her b/c that obviously would not have helped the situation
03-22-2006, 11:50 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by BigGuns' post='258735' date='Mar 22 2006, 08:38 PM
Nothing, I'm sure, but see the last line of my post.
03-23-2006, 02:25 AM
#44
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My Ride: MY RIDE is DA real .-) HAMANN 5 aka BLACK MAMBA born on 16/06/2005/delivered on 05/08/2005 as following:
530dA (steptronic), Black II (JET), leather Dakota auburn black, mapple trim, head-up display, dynamic drive, active steering, adaptive xenon headlights (auto levelling) with headlight washers, alarm, comfort seats with massage function, advanced A/C, big compartment armrest, aux-in, MP3, Logic 7, Radio PRO, CD in-dash+cd changer, power rear sunshades, rear airbags, park distance control, auto dimming folding mirrors, smoking package, shiny shadow line (individual), fold down rear seats, ski bag, sport suspension, run flats on �116-style� rims (Good Year NCT5+), cup holders, debadged, fire extinguishers, additional permanent power outlet, BMW coat hanger, trunk release button (installed by Hobi), GPS tracking device and a big thx 2 Iceman.
Mods done:
� Authentic HAMANN FRONT APRON Including ellipsoid fog lights Item-No.: 10 060 110
� Authentic HAMANN REAR SPOILER Item-No.: 10 060 130,
� Authentic HAMANN HAMANN ALUMINIUM PEDALS For cars with manual gearbox Item-No.: 80 099 100 81,00 For cars with automatic transmission Item-No.: 80 099 120
� Authentic HAMANN FOOT REST In aluminium For left-hand drive vehicles Item No. : 80 099 122
� Authentic HAMANN HAND-BRAKE LEVER In aluminium For left- and right-hand drive cars Item No. : 80 099 216
� Authentic HAMANN Idrive of alu (sorry this is the only one in the World) but you can have it in carbon fiber ,
� Authentic HAMANN EXCLUSIVE FLOORMAT SET In black with HAMANN logo in silver For left-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060 120 For right-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060
� Authentic HAMANN COVER FOR OIL FILLER CAP In aluminium Item-No.: 80 099 117
� Authentic HAMANN SPORT REAR MUFFLER 4 TAILPIPES Sport rear muffler with four round stainless-steel tailpipes ( � 76mm ) Item-No.: 50 060 111
� Authentic HAMANN new add-on for M pack rear with diffusor for quad pipes -AVAILABLE NOW (http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=30630&st=0#entry332409)
� ///M steering wheel w Pegasus logo (this will be also changed to three spoke sports)
� ///M pack rear
� HAMANN ECU upgrade 265 HP 608 Nm.
most improtant:
�real and working like a charm forumsbuy real LED tails and PIAA 4700k fogs!!! for HAMANN full front apron you need H3
� CustomAngels, Angel Eyes Brighter than stocks 10X, WHITE & (REd for shows).
� Authentic HAMANN LIGHT-ALLOY WHEELS DESIGN EDITION RACE 20"
Ultra-light forged 3-pieced light-alloy wheel, Cross-spoke-design,Spider in black, titanium, screwing,polished flange
DIMENSIONS : 9.0 J x 20 FA Item No.: 91 207 315
10.5 J x 20 only RA Item No.: 91 207 625
Recommended 20" Complete Wheel Set DESIGN EDITION RACE I went with most aggressive Combination A.10 FA 9.0 J x 20 / RA 10.5 J x 20 with tires: FA 245/30 ZR 20 / RA 285/25 ZR 20
� Authentic HAMANN LOWERING KIT 4 progressive sport springs Lowering by approx. 40 mm FA, 20 mm RA Item-No.: 20 060 125
� Authentic HAMANN TIRE - PRESSURE CHECK SENSOR SYSTEM
� Authentic HAMANN SIDE SILLS Item-No.: 10 060 120
� Authentic HAMANN REAL CF ROOF SPOLIER Item-No.: 10 060 235
� Authentic HAMANN AIRBAG SPORT STEERING WHEEL 3-SPOKE Three-spoke design w their SMG paddles (For assembly O.E. airbag in exchange)
� Authentic HAMANN sports mirrors (all functions)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and of course !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
E60.net Clings
Still to do list;-):
� Our Hobi's camera system from : ww.switchchange.com).
� Individual leather interior (auburn+auburn alcantara)... and drive with sheer drivin' pleasure ... until 2009/2010 F10 comes or E60 possibly a 540d V8 diesel early in 2009 badly juiced!
Man say that they harrased you and also your damme, so if she protest against them you cud sew them, but maybe just get that licence plate about the tint do not care...
Here if you hava an aftermarket stuff on the car, e.g. brakes, then you cannot show imediatelly receipt and T?V GS certificate they pull you off the road, imediatly take the car to the authority for general service and test and if your brakes they say (Brembo, Move.It whetever) they think not propriate they deny to put it back in traffic, no never me, my friend taled me stories, true ones.
I was not yet pulled by police anywhere except last year in Austria be carefull there they go for #### money. Tell them I am not speeding when you have a Hamann front and other stuff
:'( 
If teh situtaion wud be bit better I wud ask a copy of that video never seen a black Hamann coming
Yes in Germany when the Polizei E60 came next and behind me had no probs waved hands But maybe Ice has a diff story.
Just do not give ### about them, ppl who are jealous at you or your car.
Here if you hava an aftermarket stuff on the car, e.g. brakes, then you cannot show imediatelly receipt and T?V GS certificate they pull you off the road, imediatly take the car to the authority for general service and test and if your brakes they say (Brembo, Move.It whetever) they think not propriate they deny to put it back in traffic, no never me, my friend taled me stories, true ones.
I was not yet pulled by police anywhere except last year in Austria be carefull there they go for #### money. Tell them I am not speeding when you have a Hamann front and other stuff
:'( If teh situtaion wud be bit better I wud ask a copy of that video never seen a black Hamann coming Yes in Germany when the Polizei E60 came next and behind me had no probs waved hands
But maybe Ice has a diff story. Just do not give ### about them, ppl who are jealous at you or your car.
03-23-2006, 02:34 AM
#45
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My Ride: MY RIDE is DA real .-) HAMANN 5 aka BLACK MAMBA born on 16/06/2005/delivered on 05/08/2005 as following:
530dA (steptronic), Black II (JET), leather Dakota auburn black, mapple trim, head-up display, dynamic drive, active steering, adaptive xenon headlights (auto levelling) with headlight washers, alarm, comfort seats with massage function, advanced A/C, big compartment armrest, aux-in, MP3, Logic 7, Radio PRO, CD in-dash+cd changer, power rear sunshades, rear airbags, park distance control, auto dimming folding mirrors, smoking package, shiny shadow line (individual), fold down rear seats, ski bag, sport suspension, run flats on �116-style� rims (Good Year NCT5+), cup holders, debadged, fire extinguishers, additional permanent power outlet, BMW coat hanger, trunk release button (installed by Hobi), GPS tracking device and a big thx 2 Iceman.
Mods done:
� Authentic HAMANN FRONT APRON Including ellipsoid fog lights Item-No.: 10 060 110
� Authentic HAMANN REAR SPOILER Item-No.: 10 060 130,
� Authentic HAMANN HAMANN ALUMINIUM PEDALS For cars with manual gearbox Item-No.: 80 099 100 81,00 For cars with automatic transmission Item-No.: 80 099 120
� Authentic HAMANN FOOT REST In aluminium For left-hand drive vehicles Item No. : 80 099 122
� Authentic HAMANN HAND-BRAKE LEVER In aluminium For left- and right-hand drive cars Item No. : 80 099 216
� Authentic HAMANN Idrive of alu (sorry this is the only one in the World) but you can have it in carbon fiber ,
� Authentic HAMANN EXCLUSIVE FLOORMAT SET In black with HAMANN logo in silver For left-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060 120 For right-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060
� Authentic HAMANN COVER FOR OIL FILLER CAP In aluminium Item-No.: 80 099 117
� Authentic HAMANN SPORT REAR MUFFLER 4 TAILPIPES Sport rear muffler with four round stainless-steel tailpipes ( � 76mm ) Item-No.: 50 060 111
� Authentic HAMANN new add-on for M pack rear with diffusor for quad pipes -AVAILABLE NOW (http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=30630&st=0#entry332409)
� ///M steering wheel w Pegasus logo (this will be also changed to three spoke sports)
� ///M pack rear
� HAMANN ECU upgrade 265 HP 608 Nm.
most improtant:
�real and working like a charm forumsbuy real LED tails and PIAA 4700k fogs!!! for HAMANN full front apron you need H3
� CustomAngels, Angel Eyes Brighter than stocks 10X, WHITE & (REd for shows).
� Authentic HAMANN LIGHT-ALLOY WHEELS DESIGN EDITION RACE 20"
Ultra-light forged 3-pieced light-alloy wheel, Cross-spoke-design,Spider in black, titanium, screwing,polished flange
DIMENSIONS : 9.0 J x 20 FA Item No.: 91 207 315
10.5 J x 20 only RA Item No.: 91 207 625
Recommended 20" Complete Wheel Set DESIGN EDITION RACE I went with most aggressive Combination A.10 FA 9.0 J x 20 / RA 10.5 J x 20 with tires: FA 245/30 ZR 20 / RA 285/25 ZR 20
� Authentic HAMANN LOWERING KIT 4 progressive sport springs Lowering by approx. 40 mm FA, 20 mm RA Item-No.: 20 060 125
� Authentic HAMANN TIRE - PRESSURE CHECK SENSOR SYSTEM
� Authentic HAMANN SIDE SILLS Item-No.: 10 060 120
� Authentic HAMANN REAL CF ROOF SPOLIER Item-No.: 10 060 235
� Authentic HAMANN AIRBAG SPORT STEERING WHEEL 3-SPOKE Three-spoke design w their SMG paddles (For assembly O.E. airbag in exchange)
� Authentic HAMANN sports mirrors (all functions)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and of course !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
E60.net Clings
Still to do list;-):
� Our Hobi's camera system from : ww.switchchange.com).
� Individual leather interior (auburn+auburn alcantara)... and drive with sheer drivin' pleasure ... until 2009/2010 F10 comes or E60 possibly a 540d V8 diesel early in 2009 badly juiced!
Originally Posted by Pkorkis' post='258760' date='Mar 23 2006, 07:05 AM
I am just a little angry b/c it LOOKED as if the cops wanted nothing to do with me until they pulled up behind me. Perhaps they were just looking in the car to see what they were dealing with. And if that was the case then that's fine. But their attitude, inappropriate remarks, and disrespect towards me was out of line.
And believe me, my girlfriend is one to call me on b.s. in a second on stuff like this. And she was actually the first to say that she couldn't believe how they were acting towards me. She actually wanted to say something to them b/c she couldn't understand why they were being so condescending and insulting...I didn't let her b/c that obviously would not have helped the situation
And believe me, my girlfriend is one to call me on b.s. in a second on stuff like this. And she was actually the first to say that she couldn't believe how they were acting towards me. She actually wanted to say something to them b/c she couldn't understand why they were being so condescending and insulting...I didn't let her b/c that obviously would not have helped the situation
nice attitude
03-23-2006, 02:36 AM
#46
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My Ride: MY RIDE is DA real .-) HAMANN 5 aka BLACK MAMBA born on 16/06/2005/delivered on 05/08/2005 as following:
530dA (steptronic), Black II (JET), leather Dakota auburn black, mapple trim, head-up display, dynamic drive, active steering, adaptive xenon headlights (auto levelling) with headlight washers, alarm, comfort seats with massage function, advanced A/C, big compartment armrest, aux-in, MP3, Logic 7, Radio PRO, CD in-dash+cd changer, power rear sunshades, rear airbags, park distance control, auto dimming folding mirrors, smoking package, shiny shadow line (individual), fold down rear seats, ski bag, sport suspension, run flats on �116-style� rims (Good Year NCT5+), cup holders, debadged, fire extinguishers, additional permanent power outlet, BMW coat hanger, trunk release button (installed by Hobi), GPS tracking device and a big thx 2 Iceman.
Mods done:
� Authentic HAMANN FRONT APRON Including ellipsoid fog lights Item-No.: 10 060 110
� Authentic HAMANN REAR SPOILER Item-No.: 10 060 130,
� Authentic HAMANN HAMANN ALUMINIUM PEDALS For cars with manual gearbox Item-No.: 80 099 100 81,00 For cars with automatic transmission Item-No.: 80 099 120
� Authentic HAMANN FOOT REST In aluminium For left-hand drive vehicles Item No. : 80 099 122
� Authentic HAMANN HAND-BRAKE LEVER In aluminium For left- and right-hand drive cars Item No. : 80 099 216
� Authentic HAMANN Idrive of alu (sorry this is the only one in the World) but you can have it in carbon fiber ,
� Authentic HAMANN EXCLUSIVE FLOORMAT SET In black with HAMANN logo in silver For left-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060 120 For right-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060
� Authentic HAMANN COVER FOR OIL FILLER CAP In aluminium Item-No.: 80 099 117
� Authentic HAMANN SPORT REAR MUFFLER 4 TAILPIPES Sport rear muffler with four round stainless-steel tailpipes ( � 76mm ) Item-No.: 50 060 111
� Authentic HAMANN new add-on for M pack rear with diffusor for quad pipes -AVAILABLE NOW (http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=30630&st=0#entry332409)
� ///M steering wheel w Pegasus logo (this will be also changed to three spoke sports)
� ///M pack rear
� HAMANN ECU upgrade 265 HP 608 Nm.
most improtant:
�real and working like a charm forumsbuy real LED tails and PIAA 4700k fogs!!! for HAMANN full front apron you need H3
� CustomAngels, Angel Eyes Brighter than stocks 10X, WHITE & (REd for shows).
� Authentic HAMANN LIGHT-ALLOY WHEELS DESIGN EDITION RACE 20"
Ultra-light forged 3-pieced light-alloy wheel, Cross-spoke-design,Spider in black, titanium, screwing,polished flange
DIMENSIONS : 9.0 J x 20 FA Item No.: 91 207 315
10.5 J x 20 only RA Item No.: 91 207 625
Recommended 20" Complete Wheel Set DESIGN EDITION RACE I went with most aggressive Combination A.10 FA 9.0 J x 20 / RA 10.5 J x 20 with tires: FA 245/30 ZR 20 / RA 285/25 ZR 20
� Authentic HAMANN LOWERING KIT 4 progressive sport springs Lowering by approx. 40 mm FA, 20 mm RA Item-No.: 20 060 125
� Authentic HAMANN TIRE - PRESSURE CHECK SENSOR SYSTEM
� Authentic HAMANN SIDE SILLS Item-No.: 10 060 120
� Authentic HAMANN REAL CF ROOF SPOLIER Item-No.: 10 060 235
� Authentic HAMANN AIRBAG SPORT STEERING WHEEL 3-SPOKE Three-spoke design w their SMG paddles (For assembly O.E. airbag in exchange)
� Authentic HAMANN sports mirrors (all functions)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and of course !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
E60.net Clings
Still to do list;-):
� Our Hobi's camera system from : ww.switchchange.com).
� Individual leather interior (auburn+auburn alcantara)... and drive with sheer drivin' pleasure ... until 2009/2010 F10 comes or E60 possibly a 540d V8 diesel early in 2009 badly juiced!
Originally Posted by justinnum1' post='258729' date='Mar 23 2006, 05:22 AM
I had a similar problem. I am 18 and have a 530i. I was in a designated left hand turn lane and floored it so i could get in the right lane which continued straeight. I was not going over the speed limit and two other cars did the same. As i was passing the cars i also passed a cop. So she sees all of us passing and then she sees me. She lets the other 2 drivers go and pulls me over. She starts to yell at me that its because drivers like me accidents happen and i apologized to her saying i had no idea what i did was illegal( i really did not know) after 20 minutes she comes back and says i have a clean record and gives me a warning. If i was driving a civic this would not have happened, but nothing drives lie my 5 series so it was worht it.
try it next time...
03-23-2006, 04:38 AM
#47
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My Ride: '07 550i (5.4.06 pickup in Munchen)
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Originally Posted by Heiss5' post='258781' date='Mar 23 2006, 12:50 AM
I think he could get this ticket off his record if he fights it...
...if you can't have anything on your rear window...
...if you can't have anything on your rear window...
You can have stuff on your rear window, so long as you have two side mirrors. The only windows you cannot affix anything to are the front windshield and the front driver side and passenger side windows (with the exception of the two bottom corners of the windshield - temp tags, toll pass, etc.).
03-23-2006, 04:41 AM
#48
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uh, no offense but....
1.) u were driving without any license plates
2.) u had dark tints on the windows
i dunno about CA, but here in NY both of those are against the law. and i dont care if youre 18 or 80, you sould get a ticket or warning for both.
and yes, i agree that some police officers can be a$$holes, but ive found the overwhelming majority to be very fair.
and im tired of hearing some spolied brat say 'oh, he's just jealous of me'...thats bull$hit. some cops here can easily make six-figure salaries.
just pay your fine and learn your lesson.
1.) u were driving without any license plates
2.) u had dark tints on the windows
i dunno about CA, but here in NY both of those are against the law. and i dont care if youre 18 or 80, you sould get a ticket or warning for both.
and yes, i agree that some police officers can be a$$holes, but ive found the overwhelming majority to be very fair.
and im tired of hearing some spolied brat say 'oh, he's just jealous of me'...thats bull$hit. some cops here can easily make six-figure salaries.
just pay your fine and learn your lesson.
03-23-2006, 05:04 AM
#49
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Originally Posted by miss525i' post='258642' date='Mar 22 2006, 07:24 PM
UUronL, they don't make themselves invisible on the I-95 
let me tell you, the cops in VA are no joke...they don't play around
let me tell you, the cops in VA are no joke...they don't play around
Well, 95 is a different story... They're worried about guns and stuff being run from down in your neck of the woods. Different marching orders for sure. 95 is a mess - I avoid if possible - probably haven't driven on it in over a year.
03-23-2006, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Pkorkis' post='258457' date='Mar 22 2006, 05:05 PM
So yesterday I'm driving on Garnet Ave. @ 8pm in San Diego. I don't have a back license plate for certain reasons. I pull out of a Chipotle with a girl I'm seeing and driving back to my house when I see a cop behind me. Eventually we pull up a stop light and the cop pulls into the left hand turn lane next to me and I'm going straight. I see the cop in the passenger seat scope out the car and then me driving (a 20 year old White kid wearing a hat - what does the cop think? "spoiled punk"). The light turns green and I drive away and I see the cop jump back out of the turning lane, come behind me and pull me over. They then ask if I'm the primary driver b/c the car is under my dad's business. I say no, that my dad leaves it in San Diego every now and then and I drive it, the cop from the passenger seat says "Oh so his dad DOESN'T even know he's driving it". Then ask why I don't have a back license plate and I say that it is b/c the piece the plate attachs to is broken. The cops are being condescending and just plain rude to me as I am being as nice as possible. Even the girl I'm dating in the passenger seat says when they walk away that the cops are being such assholes and that she couldn't believe how rude and inappropriate they were acting towards me. After sitting in the car for over 20min., the cop finally comes back and gives me my ticket. And then asks me to step out of the car to show him what is wrong w/ my back plate and why I can't attach it to my car. I go back there and explain it to him and he doesn't seem to understand that a license plate actually attaches to something rather than directly to the car. Doesn't believe me, makes me get the license plate as I again try to explain it to him. Overall this whole process took over 25min., I have to fix a front & back license plate, & fix my front tint. The thing that pisses me off the most isn't the ticket, its the fact that they were going to leave me alone until they saw that it was a young guy driving the car. Some cops are invaluable to society, and some are just plain pigs that give the rest of them bad names...
Thought I would vent, thanks for reading...
Anyone have any ideas on how I can get this fixed easily w/out having to deal w/ removing and reapplying the tint. Also, anyone know of a way I can get a front license plate on my car without actually doing any drilling into the car b/c I plan on removing it after I clear the ticket.
-Thanks
-Phil
Thought I would vent, thanks for reading...
Anyone have any ideas on how I can get this fixed easily w/out having to deal w/ removing and reapplying the tint. Also, anyone know of a way I can get a front license plate on my car without actually doing any drilling into the car b/c I plan on removing it after I clear the ticket.
-Thanks
-Phil
The immediate assumption would be that you were planning some sort of criminal act (stolen car, robbery, speeding evasion, hit and run, drink driving).
Driving in a car that cannot be identified is a big deal and I think the cops are well justified in pulling you over. They are also probably justified in targetting you cause you are a young male, since young men commit about 90% of these sort of crimes.
I'm sorry that they were rude to you, but the bottom line is that they have a job to do (which includes protecting other motorists) and that you have a duty to make sure you car is road legal.
I say - fix the plates (and the tints although I don't think they were the issue) and move on - just remember how lucky you are to have such a nice car at your tender age and that many people will be envious of that.
I had some incidents with the police when I was younger which felt unfair (I was stopped in a case of mistaken identity. They wouldn't admit to this and then proceeded to try to find something to do me for - in the end a very slightly bald tyre due to a tracking problem).
Life isn't fair though and the law's the law.