Originally Posted by robg' date='Jan 19 2005, 12:19 PM

[quote name='Iceman' date='Jan 19 2005, 12:27 PM']
I personally hate speed limits, of course. But I do respect most of them, and I am sometimes just a little bit, not much!, over the limit on highways.
I don't see the need for speeding, it doesn't save much time. I take my time and am relaxed.

I allways stay under my limit and respect speed limits, even though I could do waaaay more with my car.

Originally Posted by Robbie' date='Jan 19 2005, 11:33 AM

I'm not gonna go on, but I'm just going to give you some examples of jobs I've been on where...

1) Speed has been a major contributing factor to the accident
2) No other vehicles where involved
3) The accident did not occur in a built up area

Example 1
Driver was driving home from work late at night. Roads were empty, and so the driver was driving excessivly fast (we proved this from impact marks further up the road) - about 70 in a 50 zone.
The car, whilst going round a bend, hit some oil on the road, and under-steered drastically. The passenger side wheels of the car mounted the grass verge, causing the car to flip onto its' side, and then partially onto it's roof.?

The driver was thrown toward the (now smashed) window, and his head was trapped between the still moving car and the road surface.

Half of the drivers head was removed.


Example 2
Driver was driving along a long, straight country road. Limit 50MPH. Excellent visability of the road. the road is flanked on either side by a hedge and ditch. this was about 15:30 hrs. Estimated speed was 65MPH

Witness driving in opposite direction saw a small roe deer emerge from the hedgerow in front of the car. Driver swerved towards side of road to avoid deer. Rolled car one and a half times. Car finished up on its roof at the side of the road. the driver, whilst wearing a seatbelt, and all air bags deployed, was ejected from the car onto the road, where the car landed on top of him.

He died from massive chest injuries whilst the fire crew was attempting to extricate him.




These are just two examples of RTAs I have dealt with. Everyone says that it's safe to do 15 or 20 over the limit until you've seen stuff like this.

Speed is great on a track day where the enviornoment is controlled, there are no crazy buggers coming in the opposite direction, there are no kerbs to flip your car etc.. etc..

But on the public road, speed limit are there for a reason.

Originally Posted by robg' date='Jan 19 2005, 07:19 PM

Iceman - what are the speed limits on German highways?? Of course they vary, but I belive they are universally higher than the US 55/65 mph.? If the speed limit here was 100 mph (which I think is still lower than some of the German limits) I would have no problem staying within the limits.

Originally Posted by robg' date='Jan 19 2005, 07:19 PM

Given the same road conditions, I see no justification for a 100 mph? limit in Germany and a 55 mph limit in the States.? If a US driver does 75 mph in a 55 mph limit , and under the same conditions a German driver does 75 in a 100 mph? limit, is the US driver more reckless?? I do not think so.

Originally Posted by robg' date='Jan 19 2005, 07:19 PM

My only point being that the posted speed limit is not a very good indication of a safe traveling speed.? Sometime a safe speed will be below the posted limit andsometime it will exceed the limit.

Originally Posted by evperry' date='Jan 19 2005, 09:06 PM

At 55 if you react the same way then the same things will happen.? Oil, deer, wet conditions, lack of visibility will all be lots of problems when doing 55 plus or minus.? I have hydroplaned at 50 MPH with brand new tires but have had luck on my side as I am sure that I did everything wrong to stop the car....I dont profess to be a great driver but typically its not the speed but other conditions that get you.? If the guy who had to have half his head removed was doing 55 he most likely still would have perished or been severely injured.

Originally Posted by robg' date='Jan 19 2005, 01:19 PM

The original point I was tryng to make is that a 55 mph speed limit is rather arbitrary,? not motivated by safety reasons, and llikely motivated by politics (US federal highway dollars are or were tied to a 55 mph sped limit).

My only point being that the posted speed limit is not a very good indication of a safe traveling speed.? Sometime a safe speed will be below the posted limit andsometime it will exceed the limit.

Originally Posted by Guest' date='Jan 20 2005, 12:35 PM

You have overlooked the fact that many US roads were not designed for speeds in excess of 70-75mph.? As you may know, the US Interstate Highway system was designed in the middle of the last century, when most vehicles had a difficult time cruising at speeds in excess of 70mph.? Obviously, driving this same highway system where the average car has 200 or more hp creates safety risks not present during its original design.

As a result, the speed limits are not entirely "arbitrary" as you have suggested/argued as they have been raised to 75mph on vast stretches of the Interstate system in places like Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, etc.? Further, as Iceman has noted, any knucklehead in the US can get a driver's license with no training whatsoever (and we see plenty of them here in SoCal).? In many cases now, the posted speed limit is an indication of the safe driving speed because, among other things, you may be exceeding the speeds for which the highways were originally designed and you are sharing the road with other drivers who may not have the skill to drive even at the posted speed limit.