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Old 08-14-2009, 10:14 AM
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We are truly a nation of hypocracy at times. While we value freedoms, fairness, and justice, we still seek to crucify someone who has served their time and paid their debt to society. Let's be clear: What he did to those animals was brazen, reckless, wrong, and downright sickening. He deserved and received jail-time and the loss of earnings he received ($20 million dollars worth). He has agreed to, and is actively playing the role of advocate for those very animals he caused harm to. He is educating children who may have been mistaught by those who should know better, that mistreatment of animals is not OK, and can come with very real consequences. He is working with organizations whose mission is to protect those without a voice - our 4-legged friends. He is in a position of doing far more now for the protection of animals than most are capable of doing because of circumstances. Would we rather have him in that role, or see him spend the remainder of his days broken and villified?

Some would love to see the man suffer a life-long sentence, with no opportunity for redemption. When he falls into a life of crime, or becomes a burden on the taxpayers because he has no further opportunity to make a living, some of these same folks will complain about a broken system, and the laziness of him for being on the public rolls. At what point does a person indead pay their debt to society? Is there really such a thing as paying one's debt in the eyes of some here? How does that view reflect against the laws, values, and protections that are the fabric of our nation? I'm curious to know...
Old 08-14-2009, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by advancedlogic' post='976689' date='Aug 14 2009, 01:14 PM
We are truly a nation of hypocracy at times. While we value freedoms, fairness, and justice, we still seek to crucify someone who has served their time and paid their debt to society. Let's be clear: What he did to those animals was brazen, reckless, wrong, and downright sickening. He deserved and received jail-time and the loss of earnings he received ($20 million dollars worth). He has agreed to, and is actively playing the role of advocate for those very animals he caused harm to. He is educating children who may have been mistaught by those who should know better, that mistreatment of animals is not OK, and can come with very real consequences. He is working with organizations whose mission is to protect those without a voice - our 4-legged friends. He is in a position of doing far more now for the protection of animals than most are capable of doing because of circumstances. Would we rather have him in that role, or see him spend the remainder of his days broken and villified?

Some would love to see the man suffer a life-long sentence, with no opportunity for redemption. When he falls into a life of crime, or becomes a burden on the taxpayers because he has no further opportunity to make a living, some of these same folks will complain about a broken system, and the laziness of him for being on the public rolls. At what point does a person indead pay their debt to society? Is there really such a thing as paying one's debt in the eyes of some here? How does that view reflect against the laws, values, and protections that are the fabric of our nation? I'm curious to know...
AL: Perhaps when he has completed more of his community service, some of us will feel differently. It just seems too soon to call it even, but that's just my opinion. -Calvin
Old 08-14-2009, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by porsche911targa' post='975859' date='Aug 13 2009, 10:32 PM
I agree. The man paid his debt to society and should be allowed to make a living. Playing in the NFL is what he did and he should be able to return to his chosen career. I, too, am an animal lover and I am in favor of the man regaining his livelyhood. All right, time to get back to my steak before it gets cold.
a lot of ex cons cant even get a job at burger king. when you commit a heinous crime such as brutalizing helpless animals, IT SHOULD negatively impact the rest of your life. I am sure he doesnt give a shit about what he did. i bet he is only sorry he got caught. he is a dirtbag. they should have tied him up and unleashed those poor tortured animals on him.

also: isnt he on parole? why should he be allowed to travel around the country to participate in away games? other parolees cant do that...
Old 08-14-2009, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Alpine White Girl' post='976078' date='Aug 14 2009, 01:04 AM
Lol this is great. Speaking of Cleveland and criminals....Donte Stallworth out the entire 2009 season and HE KILLED A PERSON NOT A DOG.
that man was not helpless, he was walking across a road. I am not taking away from the fact that stallworth killed someone BUT... this guy could have looked both ways before crossing the road. i know i do, and i wont get hit by a car. those animals had no choice.

animals and children are helpless. an adult to preoccupied to see if traffic is coming is not.
Old 08-14-2009, 11:01 AM
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Regardless, he sells tickets. vince.
Old 08-14-2009, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Alpine White Girl' post='975817' date='Aug 14 2009, 04:16 AM
do you understand how many people in the nfl are criminals? if the nfl banned every criminal there wouldnt be an nfl.
...
Oh yeah, I know. I have been employed by the NFL, so I knwo exactly what you mean.
When I signed my contract I had to agree on a couple things... and I will never understand why criminals are allowed to play in the NFL even though it's against their policy.
The fact that there are many criminals doesn't make this any better and only shows that it's time to rethink the whole picture.

IMHO a criminal who's been in jail should be allowed to hve a normal life when he gets released.
But I think it is disgusting to let criminals get back to jobs where they become IDOLS for kids.
Following the logic that he should be allowed to come back and live as nothing has happened...
Would you let him become President of the United States? I think not... right?

IMO, there are some jobs a criminal should never be allowed to have after coming out of jail.
Beeing a sports star, and idol for kids, is definately on the list.
Old 08-14-2009, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CWS530' post='976700' date='Aug 14 2009, 11:22 AM
AL: Perhaps when he has completed more of his community service, some of us will feel differently. It just seems too soon to call it even, but that's just my opinion. -Calvin
I completely understand Calvin. My argument is simply what is the point of penal restitution and the belief in a fair and just society if society refuses to allow redemption after one has paid the debt levied? I see it all the time, unfortunately, especially when one has been convicted of felonies. It is extremely difficult for such persons to become productive members of society, because society tends to penalize them for life. Such persons then become a drain, or fall back into a life of crime because those are the only avenues left to persue for a chance at surviving. The best way to reintegrate and rehabilitate a person is to provide them with tools and opportunities to do better. What incentive does a person have to do better when no opportunities for such exists? The simple answer is few to none - there is very little incentive to change, if change is worse than the risks of maintaining bad behaviors.
Old 08-14-2009, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Iceman' post='976761' date='Aug 14 2009, 12:17 PM
Oh yeah, I know. I have been employed by the NFL, so I knwo exactly what you mean.
When I signed my contract I had to agree on a couple things... and I will never understand why criminals are allowed to play in the NFL even though it's against their policy.
The fact that there are many criminals doesn't make this any better and only shows that it's time to rethink the whole picture.

IMHO a criminal who's been in jail should be allowed to hve a normal life when he gets released.
But I think it is disgusting to let criminals get back to jobs where they become IDOLS for kids.
Following the logic that he should be allowed to come back and live as nothing has happened...
Would you let him become President of the United States? I think not... right?

IMO, there are some jobs a criminal should never be allowed to have after coming out of jail.
Beeing a sports star, and idol for kids, is definately on the list.
In many ways that may be the BEST job for him. It puts his life in a very bright spotlight for such kids. It affords them 2 important lessons about life - bad behaviors can lead to very real consequences. The loss of freedom (jail time), the loss of financial stability (going from highly paid to bankrupt in an instant), the loss of trust, and the loss of reputation. But, it also illustrates that there is hope and opportunities if one changes their ways and contributes positively to society. It shows the value and power of forgiveness, while illustrating that doesn't mean forgetting. These are the kinds of lessons that should be taught to troubled youths - that you can have a chance at a great life if you are willing to change and work for forgiveness. He isn't living as though nothing has happened. He is living as someone where a whole lot HAS happened, and he is ensuring that others not follow in those footsteps.
Old 08-14-2009, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by advancedlogic' post='976772' date='Aug 14 2009, 02:23 PM
I completely understand Calvin. My argument is simply what is the point of penal restitution and the belief in a fair and just society if society refuses to allow redemption after one has paid the debt levied? I see it all the time, unfortunately, especially when one has been convicted of felonies. It is extremely difficult for such persons to become productive members of society, because society tends to penalize them for life. Such persons then become a drain, or fall back into a life of crime because those are the only avenues left to persue for a chance at surviving. The best way to reintegrate and rehabilitate a person is to provide them with tools and opportunities to do better. What incentive does a person have to do better when no opportunities for such exists? The simple answer is few to none - there is very little incentive to change, if change is worse than the risks of maintaining bad behaviors.
You are correct.
Old 08-14-2009, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by CWS530' post='976790' date='Aug 14 2009, 12:43 PM
You are correct.
I know, but fuck Michael Vick! 5 million would buy me a whole lotta BMW's!!!! I hate him....


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