PORK AND SOCIALISM MASQUERADING AS "STIMULUS"
01-29-2009, 12:47 PM
#61
Contributors
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2012 535i M package
Originally Posted by ENstig8or' post='780326' date='Jan 29 2009, 03:57 PM
+2
Our problem in America is we have to coddle everyone and hold their hands and agree while they blame their problems on everyone but themselves. We have become a nation of enablers. I'm sorry, call me cold and callus, but if someone who earns $50k per year buys a $500k house with no money down, I don't care if they lose it. If they are that blind and stupid why should I have to pay up to bail them out. Of course we blame the greedy banks, but what happened to laying blame where it is deserved. Nobody held a gun to their heads and made them buy something they could never afford! People must live within their means, and the same goes for the government. Obama wants to spend a trillion dollars to stimulate the economy. Where does that come from? Ink and paper. That's all it is. Once reality sets in and the government is forced to back up all that paper, we could be in for a big collapse, much bigger than we are in now. Right now, we can not back up all of that worthless paper.
Our problem in America is we have to coddle everyone and hold their hands and agree while they blame their problems on everyone but themselves. We have become a nation of enablers. I'm sorry, call me cold and callus, but if someone who earns $50k per year buys a $500k house with no money down, I don't care if they lose it. If they are that blind and stupid why should I have to pay up to bail them out. Of course we blame the greedy banks, but what happened to laying blame where it is deserved. Nobody held a gun to their heads and made them buy something they could never afford! People must live within their means, and the same goes for the government. Obama wants to spend a trillion dollars to stimulate the economy. Where does that come from? Ink and paper. That's all it is. Once reality sets in and the government is forced to back up all that paper, we could be in for a big collapse, much bigger than we are in now. Right now, we can not back up all of that worthless paper.
01-29-2009, 12:49 PM
#62
Contributors
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2012 535i M package
Originally Posted by lightfytr' post='780340' date='Jan 29 2009, 04:16 PM
I hear your frustration but you are explaining the extreme which goes both ways. When a person has good credit, it means what? It means that person will honor with all their ability to pay what they owe to his creditors. When he loses his job, his wife loses her job, can't find another, deplete 401k... House forecloses.
When you qualify for a home, car, motorcycle it doesnt mean you have infinite ability to repay it if income stops coming in. This is what a lot of people are dealing with. Of course, a number of people qualified for homes they shouldnt have but lets say they got a 200k house instead of a 400k house and they lost their job, does it matter?
Afford means what? How long would you be able to go on paying your mortgage if you lost your job and all went downhill where you couldnt get one enough to cover it????
In that instance where you go into the black, you become like all the people you are talking about..
When you qualify for a home, car, motorcycle it doesnt mean you have infinite ability to repay it if income stops coming in. This is what a lot of people are dealing with. Of course, a number of people qualified for homes they shouldnt have but lets say they got a 200k house instead of a 400k house and they lost their job, does it matter?
Afford means what? How long would you be able to go on paying your mortgage if you lost your job and all went downhill where you couldnt get one enough to cover it????
In that instance where you go into the black, you become like all the people you are talking about..
01-29-2009, 01:36 PM
#64
Contributors
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2008 535i w/ Sports & Permium Pkg. Silv/Blk
2008 VW R32 w/Nav.
1992 VW Corrado Silv/Blk-retired
2001 530i Sports/Premium-retired
Show of hands....sort of.....how many here have lived in country that had no social safety net, one where the poor, the disabled and the unfortunate had to totaly fend for themselves.?
Please enlighten us on this great utopia, where sloth and the lack of personal industry has been eradicated by said economic 'natural selection'.
A place where a smart hardworking ambitious man can live out his days in peace, prosperity and tranquility.
Please enlighten us on this great utopia, where sloth and the lack of personal industry has been eradicated by said economic 'natural selection'.
A place where a smart hardworking ambitious man can live out his days in peace, prosperity and tranquility.
01-29-2009, 02:05 PM
#65
Contributors
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NYC & LI
Posts: 2,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by PraiseTheLowered' post='780393' date='Jan 29 2009, 04:29 PM
I read about some of these legal constraints on banks. Can you go into more detail? Perhaps post some links to support it as well. I think this is where the topic should be going towards if we are talking about the major economic issue.
start by reading up on FAS 157(google it) , it may open your eyes to some of the madness: i'll continue to post as I can, but there is a lot of things that are not reported on to the general public that influences the discussion and how we proceed...
01-29-2009, 06:23 PM
#66
Contributors
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2004 545i, Sport and Premium package, Titanium Silver with Black Dakota Leather interior
Show of hands....sort of.....how many here have lived in country that had no social safety net, one where the poor, the disabled and the unfortunate had to totaly fend for themselves.?
Please enlighten us on this great utopia, where sloth and the lack of personal industry has been eradicated by said economic 'natural selection'.
A place where a smart hardworking ambitious man can live out his days in peace, prosperity and tranquility.
Please enlighten us on this great utopia, where sloth and the lack of personal industry has been eradicated by said economic 'natural selection'.
A place where a smart hardworking ambitious man can live out his days in peace, prosperity and tranquility.
01-29-2009, 06:26 PM
#67
Contributors
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 5,501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by rogerj' post='780713' date='Jan 29 2009, 07:23 PM
Phil, I have never lived anywhere except here. I agree that we definitely need a health safety net... but what we have here in the states goes far beyond a social safety net... It has become a crutch, an excuse, a reason, a solution, and a way of life... that is bullsit... and you and I pay and support it. This has to change!
I agree. There comes a point when politicians need to stop assuming that we cannot possibly be as smart and educated as them and therefore need them to protect us from ourselves.
There is a huge amount of personal responsibility that goes in this territory and too often its assumed that consumers are somehow incapable of learning and making good choices.
People make bad choices sure, but if they are bailed out everytime they make one, how are they suppose to learn.
I have always held the belief that I know how to handle my money better than some politician miles away that knows nothing of my life. They wouldnt allow us to dictate how their money is spent but yet its ok for them to write it into law for the "greater good" of societies poor.
01-29-2009, 06:39 PM
#68
Contributors
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2004 545i, Sport and Premium package, Titanium Silver with Black Dakota Leather interior
I agree. There comes a point when politicians need to stop assuming that we cannot possibly be as smart and educated as them and therefore need them to protect us from ourselves.
There is a huge amount of personal responsibility that goes in this territory and too often its assumed that consumers are somehow incapable of learning and making good choices.
People make bad choices sure, but if they are bailed out everytime they make one, how are they suppose to learn.
I have always held the belief that I know how to handle my money better than some politician miles away that knows nothing of my life. They wouldnt allow us to dictate how their money is spent but yet its ok for them to write it into law for the "greater good" of societies poor.
There is a huge amount of personal responsibility that goes in this territory and too often its assumed that consumers are somehow incapable of learning and making good choices.
People make bad choices sure, but if they are bailed out everytime they make one, how are they suppose to learn.
I have always held the belief that I know how to handle my money better than some politician miles away that knows nothing of my life. They wouldnt allow us to dictate how their money is spent but yet its ok for them to write it into law for the "greater good" of societies poor.
01-29-2009, 08:17 PM
#69
Contributors
Originally Posted by MiamiPhill' post='780460' date='Jan 29 2009, 05:36 PM
Show of hands....sort of.....how many here have lived in country that had no social safety net, one where the poor, the disabled and the unfortunate had to totaly fend for themselves.?
Please enlighten us on this great utopia, where sloth and the lack of personal industry has been eradicated by said economic 'natural selection'.
A place where a smart hardworking ambitious man can live out his days in peace, prosperity and tranquility.
Please enlighten us on this great utopia, where sloth and the lack of personal industry has been eradicated by said economic 'natural selection'.
A place where a smart hardworking ambitious man can live out his days in peace, prosperity and tranquility.
As far as the poor; are they poor by choice (just choose not to work, cannot pass a drug test for employment, etc.) or poor due to environmental circumstances (no opportunities in the area, single parent with children, handicapped, etc.)? There are a whole lot of "levels" of poor brother. Our poor live leaps and bounds above the poor in third world countries.
Regardless, there will always be the poor and there will always be the wealthy in this country but why must we always tear the wealthy down, rather than bring the poor up? The majority of the wealthy have worked their asses off for what they have and it's very personal when the government wants more. We have had programs for the poor for decades and what have some of these programs accomplished? A block of Welfare-State citizens. The poor now are worse off than they have ever been. Case in point our great public school system; we throw money at this vehicle all the time and what has it created? A 15-20% drop out rate and it is blamed on bad teachers. Welfare was meant to be bridge to keep you afloat during rough times between employment now it is used at times as a main source of income.
I do not have any problems helping the poor out due to environmental, mental or physical limitations or circumstances; these are the people our "social" programs are supposed to help out to have a better life. Not the previous mentioned.
The underlying tone here is personal responsibility; if you take care of your business and do the right things i.e. education, gainful employment, your children, health, etc. your "Utopia" should come to you.
01-30-2009, 07:51 AM
#70
Contributors
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Egg Harbor Township, NJ
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 650 Grand Coupe
Model Year: 2016
Originally Posted by garylewa' post='780851' date='Jan 30 2009, 12:17 AM
I have not nor would I want to. There is still such a thing as "human decency". I do not nor would I ever willingly want to stop funding for social programs for the disabled, mentally challenged and the unfortunate and I support them on every levy.
As far as the poor; are they poor by choice (just choose not to work, cannot pass a drug test for employment, etc.) or poor due to environmental circumstances (no opportunities in the area, single parent with children, handicapped, etc.)? There are a whole lot of "levels" of poor brother. Our poor live leaps and bounds above the poor in third world countries.
Regardless, there will always be the poor and there will always be the wealthy in this country but why must we always tear the wealthy down, rather than bring the poor up? The majority of the wealthy have worked their asses off for what they have and it's very personal when the government wants more. We have had programs for the poor for decades and what have some of these programs accomplished? A block of Welfare-State citizens. The poor now are worse off than they have ever been. Case in point our great public school system; we throw money at this vehicle all the time and what has it created? A 15-20% drop out rate and it is blamed on bad teachers. Welfare was meant to be bridge to keep you afloat during rough times between employment now it is used at times as a main source of income.
I do not have any problems helping the poor out due to environmental, mental or physical limitations or circumstances; these are the people our "social" programs are supposed to help out to have a better life. Not the previous mentioned.
The underlying tone here is personal responsibility; if you take care of your business and do the right things i.e. education, gainful employment, your children, health, etc. your "Utopia" should come to you.
As far as the poor; are they poor by choice (just choose not to work, cannot pass a drug test for employment, etc.) or poor due to environmental circumstances (no opportunities in the area, single parent with children, handicapped, etc.)? There are a whole lot of "levels" of poor brother. Our poor live leaps and bounds above the poor in third world countries.
Regardless, there will always be the poor and there will always be the wealthy in this country but why must we always tear the wealthy down, rather than bring the poor up? The majority of the wealthy have worked their asses off for what they have and it's very personal when the government wants more. We have had programs for the poor for decades and what have some of these programs accomplished? A block of Welfare-State citizens. The poor now are worse off than they have ever been. Case in point our great public school system; we throw money at this vehicle all the time and what has it created? A 15-20% drop out rate and it is blamed on bad teachers. Welfare was meant to be bridge to keep you afloat during rough times between employment now it is used at times as a main source of income.
I do not have any problems helping the poor out due to environmental, mental or physical limitations or circumstances; these are the people our "social" programs are supposed to help out to have a better life. Not the previous mentioned.
The underlying tone here is personal responsibility; if you take care of your business and do the right things i.e. education, gainful employment, your children, health, etc. your "Utopia" should come to you.
There ya go! I agree.
And when we do what you say in your last line, it brings us back to the beginning of this discussion. Now we are forced to give up some of what we have busted our butts for to prop up those have not practiced personal responsibility or who do not want to work. I am a small business owner. If I had a dollar for each time an employee asked me to lay them off so they "collect", I would be a rich man. It makes me want to cringe.