Italian GP!
09-10-2006, 07:50 AM
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Kubica drove preciously the race and I thing he deserved the third place against Alonso.
Speed limiter in the pit lane is 120 Km.
Summy is a great driver and he has prove it with all the championships he won, especially his first ones with Ferrari, when their cars weren't so fast they are now.
Speed limiter in the pit lane is 120 Km.
Summy is a great driver and he has prove it with all the championships he won, especially his first ones with Ferrari, when their cars weren't so fast they are now.
09-10-2006, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Iceman' post='332899' date='Sep 10 2006, 06:26 PM
It's not those "crazy Italians", first of all.
If you like one driver, that's fine. But you don't have to make such comments, like if he would have kept his starting grid position his engine would have not blown up. They have to make their engines so that they survive, even if the driver gives 100% all the time. His engine would have blown anyways. Period.
Yes, sometimes they are too late with the limiter. They are not super-humans, they are just regular guys that get paid for driving fast. They make mistakes just like you and me.
Formula one is losing a great driver to the end of the season, hopefully with another championship. An impressive career ends, and F1 will lose a lot with him.
If you like one driver, that's fine. But you don't have to make such comments, like if he would have kept his starting grid position his engine would have not blown up. They have to make their engines so that they survive, even if the driver gives 100% all the time. His engine would have blown anyways. Period.
Yes, sometimes they are too late with the limiter. They are not super-humans, they are just regular guys that get paid for driving fast. They make mistakes just like you and me.
Formula one is losing a great driver to the end of the season, hopefully with another championship. An impressive career ends, and F1 will lose a lot with him.
Please if you have solid proof that his engine would have blown anyways then i really would like to see it. I for one am not so sure about it, i said maybe.
And lets get back to the story here? WAS the penalty fair or not?! Many people like Lauda, Jackie Steward and many more say it was not fair. We are talking here aobut the morality of the thing. And if this kind of penalty is given so easily then why m. schumacher wasn't treated the same at monaco? I'm just thinking....cuz for me it seems michael is a bit "menaged" when it comes to braking the rules.
Yes i do agree on the other hand that F1 will loose alot with michael's departure. Competition is always good for this sport and it's the essence of it.
09-10-2006, 08:17 AM
#13
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Originally Posted by nicke60gre' post='332903' date='Sep 10 2006, 06:50 PM
Speed limiter in the pit lane is 120 Km.
09-10-2006, 08:41 AM
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My Ride: MY RIDE is DA real .-) HAMANN 5 aka BLACK MAMBA born on 16/06/2005/delivered on 05/08/2005 as following:
530dA (steptronic), Black II (JET), leather Dakota auburn black, mapple trim, head-up display, dynamic drive, active steering, adaptive xenon headlights (auto levelling) with headlight washers, alarm, comfort seats with massage function, advanced A/C, big compartment armrest, aux-in, MP3, Logic 7, Radio PRO, CD in-dash+cd changer, power rear sunshades, rear airbags, park distance control, auto dimming folding mirrors, smoking package, shiny shadow line (individual), fold down rear seats, ski bag, sport suspension, run flats on �116-style� rims (Good Year NCT5+), cup holders, debadged, fire extinguishers, additional permanent power outlet, BMW coat hanger, trunk release button (installed by Hobi), GPS tracking device and a big thx 2 Iceman.
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� Authentic HAMANN FRONT APRON Including ellipsoid fog lights Item-No.: 10 060 110
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� Authentic HAMANN FOOT REST In aluminium For left-hand drive vehicles Item No. : 80 099 122
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� Authentic HAMANN COVER FOR OIL FILLER CAP In aluminium Item-No.: 80 099 117
� Authentic HAMANN SPORT REAR MUFFLER 4 TAILPIPES Sport rear muffler with four round stainless-steel tailpipes ( � 76mm ) Item-No.: 50 060 111
� Authentic HAMANN new add-on for M pack rear with diffusor for quad pipes -AVAILABLE NOW (http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=30630&st=0#entry332409)
� ///M steering wheel w Pegasus logo (this will be also changed to three spoke sports)
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Originally Posted by Iceman' post='332899' date='Sep 10 2006, 05:26 PM
It's not those "crazy Italians", first of all.
If you like one driver, that's fine. But you don't have to make such comments, like if he would have kept his starting grid position his engine would have not blown up. They have to make their engines so that they survive, even if the driver gives 100% all the time. His engine would have blown anyways. Period.
Yes, sometimes they are too late with the limiter. They are not super-humans, they are just regular guys that get paid for driving fast. They make mistakes just like you and me.
Formula one is losing a great driver to the end of the season, hopefully with another championship. An impressive career ends, and F1 will lose a lot with him.
If you like one driver, that's fine. But you don't have to make such comments, like if he would have kept his starting grid position his engine would have not blown up. They have to make their engines so that they survive, even if the driver gives 100% all the time. His engine would have blown anyways. Period.
Yes, sometimes they are too late with the limiter. They are not super-humans, they are just regular guys that get paid for driving fast. They make mistakes just like you and me.
Formula one is losing a great driver to the end of the season, hopefully with another championship. An impressive career ends, and F1 will lose a lot with him.
, and you have to stop at the top, I think I will have to buy a red cap for Nov with EIGHT stripes on it! 
Kubica was great and as we discussed in Dingolfing, hope that M tech GmbH and F1 will invent something besides the wheel 
Was nice to see a Renault burning
but I also was sorry for Alonso.
09-10-2006, 08:58 AM
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...It's just my bealive iceman that the extra stress may have caused this, it's just my personal point of view, it's not necesary true...
... MAYBE he would have acted more cautiously with the engine and all but when you know your main rival is leading the race you tend to go 101% to make all it's possible to catch up...
...Please if you have solid proof that his engine would have blown anyways then i really would like to see it...
...But as i've seen him and as i understood from the commentators he was really pissed and angry about that penalty...
...WAS the penalty fair or not?! Many people like Lauda, Jackie Steward and many more say it was not fair. We are talking here aobut the morality of the thing. And if this kind of penalty is given so easily then why m. schumacher wasn't treated the same at monaco? ...
... MAYBE he would have acted more cautiously with the engine and all but when you know your main rival is leading the race you tend to go 101% to make all it's possible to catch up...
...Please if you have solid proof that his engine would have blown anyways then i really would like to see it...
...But as i've seen him and as i understood from the commentators he was really pissed and angry about that penalty...
...WAS the penalty fair or not?! Many people like Lauda, Jackie Steward and many more say it was not fair. We are talking here aobut the morality of the thing. And if this kind of penalty is given so easily then why m. schumacher wasn't treated the same at monaco? ...
It's just a fact, that if an engine is perfect, a driver can't blow it. If everything works perfect, he can't ruin it, because when trying to do so, there are several limiters that kick in before the engine is ruined. And even if he can, then he is NOT a champion-driver! He simply does NOT deserve ANY championship then , because beeing a champion means more than just driving the car around the circuit. It means to be in control, physically and mentally. Getting such a penalty, he has to accept and forget about it and then show everybody that he can't be stopped anyways. If he reacts with "pushing the car/engine too much" he is not a good driver, nor a real champion. The engines in F1 are state of the art. Any of those engines is the very best. Those engines have to be in a condition where they survive the worst driver ever in history, no matter what he does. If the driver is able to blow the car, it is the fault of the team that made the engine!
Now, the penalty... There are not just "Italians" that make those decisions. You are mad about this one penalty? He should have made a good race even with that penalty. Schumacher did in such situations. Humans make errors, in F1 and anywhere else. In Schumachers case there were such errors made too. You are pi**ed because this happened in Italy, so you automatically think they have done this for Schumacher. If the same would have happened in Magny Cours or better in Barcelona... you wouldn't be pi**ed then. And if the same would've happened to Schumacher in Barcelona his fans would react just like you did. But in fact, the guys in F! are allways trying to get things right. Unfortunately they make mistakes, they are not perfect. In the end it doesn't matter anyways. They made the decision, and it stands. Just like in any other sports, if the ref makes a decision, this is it.
And for the rest of the season, I think even lonso's fans, have to be for Michael now. Let it end with a final championship. He is the bets ever anyways, let him go with a final title.
For me it's no question, because I hate that MoFo that is the Boss at Renault, and BMW is getting better but still has some to improve. I love BMW, but BMW is not a racing car/team to me. So in F1 I have allways been a Ferrari fan first, then BMW.
09-10-2006, 09:17 AM
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Actually I have to agree with BetterMakeWay, the five place penalty for Alonso was utterly inexplicable and yes it was a crazy decision - and yes Ice it was made by the Italian race stewards (who for the purposes of this decision answer only to.... the Italian stewards). Analysis of the sector times showed that Alonso did not impede Massa, Alonso was himself attempting to get a flying lap in before the shutters came down at the end of P3. The decision also noted that there was no intent on the part of Alonso, so how can it have been blocking, which of course implies some precondition of intent. Without intent, Alonso's offence appears, in fact, to have been little more than caught "being on the track during qualifying". Alonso's engine failure may or may not have been influenced by the decision and the task to make up five additional places he was given as a consequence - but it is certainly possible.
Conspiracy theorists feel free to add to that last quote as you see fit. I respect Michael as a driver and his achievements are totally without parallel - but this decision simply adds fuel to the fire for those of us who consider that Schumacher has benefitted from external assistance more than any other driver in recent history. I can't recall any other driver who has benefited from a) team orders as much as he has since joining Ferrari and b) so many race or qualifying incidents or decisions that just happen to primarily benefit one team, a team who's success many say is crucial to the continued popularity of F1.
BMW (and in particular Kubica) were phenomenal today. I'm expecting big things for next season.
Conspiracy theorists feel free to add to that last quote as you see fit. I respect Michael as a driver and his achievements are totally without parallel - but this decision simply adds fuel to the fire for those of us who consider that Schumacher has benefitted from external assistance more than any other driver in recent history. I can't recall any other driver who has benefited from a) team orders as much as he has since joining Ferrari and b) so many race or qualifying incidents or decisions that just happen to primarily benefit one team, a team who's success many say is crucial to the continued popularity of F1.
BMW (and in particular Kubica) were phenomenal today. I'm expecting big things for next season.
09-10-2006, 09:33 AM
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530dA (steptronic), Black II (JET), leather Dakota auburn black, mapple trim, head-up display, dynamic drive, active steering, adaptive xenon headlights (auto levelling) with headlight washers, alarm, comfort seats with massage function, advanced A/C, big compartment armrest, aux-in, MP3, Logic 7, Radio PRO, CD in-dash+cd changer, power rear sunshades, rear airbags, park distance control, auto dimming folding mirrors, smoking package, shiny shadow line (individual), fold down rear seats, ski bag, sport suspension, run flats on �116-style� rims (Good Year NCT5+), cup holders, debadged, fire extinguishers, additional permanent power outlet, BMW coat hanger, trunk release button (installed by Hobi), GPS tracking device and a big thx 2 Iceman.
Mods done:
� Authentic HAMANN FRONT APRON Including ellipsoid fog lights Item-No.: 10 060 110
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� Authentic HAMANN HAMANN ALUMINIUM PEDALS For cars with manual gearbox Item-No.: 80 099 100 81,00 For cars with automatic transmission Item-No.: 80 099 120
� Authentic HAMANN FOOT REST In aluminium For left-hand drive vehicles Item No. : 80 099 122
� Authentic HAMANN HAND-BRAKE LEVER In aluminium For left- and right-hand drive cars Item No. : 80 099 216
� Authentic HAMANN Idrive of alu (sorry this is the only one in the World) but you can have it in carbon fiber ,
� Authentic HAMANN EXCLUSIVE FLOORMAT SET In black with HAMANN logo in silver For left-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060 120 For right-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060
� Authentic HAMANN COVER FOR OIL FILLER CAP In aluminium Item-No.: 80 099 117
� Authentic HAMANN SPORT REAR MUFFLER 4 TAILPIPES Sport rear muffler with four round stainless-steel tailpipes ( � 76mm ) Item-No.: 50 060 111
� Authentic HAMANN new add-on for M pack rear with diffusor for quad pipes -AVAILABLE NOW (http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=30630&st=0#entry332409)
� ///M steering wheel w Pegasus logo (this will be also changed to three spoke sports)
� ///M pack rear
� HAMANN ECU upgrade 265 HP 608 Nm.
most improtant:
�real and working like a charm forumsbuy real LED tails and PIAA 4700k fogs!!! for HAMANN full front apron you need H3
� CustomAngels, Angel Eyes Brighter than stocks 10X, WHITE & (REd for shows).
� Authentic HAMANN LIGHT-ALLOY WHEELS DESIGN EDITION RACE 20"
Ultra-light forged 3-pieced light-alloy wheel, Cross-spoke-design,Spider in black, titanium, screwing,polished flange
DIMENSIONS : 9.0 J x 20 FA Item No.: 91 207 315
10.5 J x 20 only RA Item No.: 91 207 625
Recommended 20" Complete Wheel Set DESIGN EDITION RACE I went with most aggressive Combination A.10 FA 9.0 J x 20 / RA 10.5 J x 20 with tires: FA 245/30 ZR 20 / RA 285/25 ZR 20
� Authentic HAMANN LOWERING KIT 4 progressive sport springs Lowering by approx. 40 mm FA, 20 mm RA Item-No.: 20 060 125
� Authentic HAMANN TIRE - PRESSURE CHECK SENSOR SYSTEM
� Authentic HAMANN SIDE SILLS Item-No.: 10 060 120
� Authentic HAMANN REAL CF ROOF SPOLIER Item-No.: 10 060 235
� Authentic HAMANN AIRBAG SPORT STEERING WHEEL 3-SPOKE Three-spoke design w their SMG paddles (For assembly O.E. airbag in exchange)
� Authentic HAMANN sports mirrors (all functions)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and of course !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
E60.net Clings
Still to do list;-):
� Our Hobi's camera system from : ww.switchchange.com).
� Individual leather interior (auburn+auburn alcantara)... and drive with sheer drivin' pleasure ... until 2009/2010 F10 comes or E60 possibly a 540d V8 diesel early in 2009 badly juiced!
rules of FIA has no reason for us to fight, I agree that talk here in Lounge about F1 is cool but no offence we will not change the rules nor the F1 World. What I think of F1 that has changed a lot (too much in recent years). But hey still nice, you see BeMaWay finally our BMW team was great! But the red devils on black horses still winning. That is like that. If MS will win I will make a Tshirt with ....you will see.
09-10-2006, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='332928' date='Sep 10 2006, 08:17 PM
Actually I have to agree with BetterMakeWay, the five place penalty for Alonso was utterly inexplicable and yes it was a crazy decision - and yes Ice it was made by the Italian race stewards (who for the purposes of this decision answer only to.... the Italian stewards). Analysis of the sector times showed that Alonso did not impede Massa, Alonso was himself attempting to get a flying lap in before the shutters came down at the end of P3. The decision also noted that there was no intent on the part of Alonso, so how can it have been blocking, which of course implies some precondition of intent. Without intent, Alonso's offence appears, in fact, to have been little more than caught "being on the track during qualifying". Alonso's engine failure may or may not have been influenced by the decision and the task to make up five additional places he was given as a consequence - but it is certainly possible.
Conspiracy theorists feel free to add to that last quote as you see fit. I respect Michael as a driver and his achievements are totally without parallel - but this decision simply adds fuel to the fire for those of us who consider that Schumacher has benefitted from external assistance more than any other driver in recent history. I can't recall any other driver who has benefited from a) team orders as much as he has since joining Ferrari and b) so many race or qualifying incidents or decisions that just happen to primarily benefit one team, a team who's success many say is crucial to the continued popularity of F1.
BMW (and in particular Kubica) were phenomenal today. I'm expecting big things for next season.
Conspiracy theorists feel free to add to that last quote as you see fit. I respect Michael as a driver and his achievements are totally without parallel - but this decision simply adds fuel to the fire for those of us who consider that Schumacher has benefitted from external assistance more than any other driver in recent history. I can't recall any other driver who has benefited from a) team orders as much as he has since joining Ferrari and b) so many race or qualifying incidents or decisions that just happen to primarily benefit one team, a team who's success many say is crucial to the continued popularity of F1.
BMW (and in particular Kubica) were phenomenal today. I'm expecting big things for next season.
And i don't agree at all with the fact that alonso's fans should become michael's or whatever. Why? If michael wants to end up in style then he has to work his butt for it not for drivers to "move aside" just because the king is stepping back. If you were alonso what would you think iceman about the latests things that happened? Wouldn't you hold to the fight for the championship with your teeth?
We'll see what happens with ferrari after schumy is out.
09-10-2006, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='332928' date='Sep 10 2006, 07:17 PM
...I can't recall any other driver who has benefited from a) team orders as much as he has since joining Ferrari and b) so many race or qualifying incidents or decisions that just happen to primarily benefit one team, a team who's success many say is crucial to the continued popularity of F1....
Anyways, whatever the stewards see and report has to be reviewed and then there's a judgement. If you don't agree there are ways to fight it, and not everybody who has a saying in it was Italian this weekend.
However, it's over, it's history.
Next season there will be such incidents with others and nobody will remember today. It will be another conspiracy theory then for somebody else. It's allways been like this and there's allways been a driver that seemed to have the whole F1 on his side. When the same guys make such a decision next year, it's about a different driver and somebody else is in favor. Then, why are they doing it? Because they have a new preferred driver?
It's just simply a fact that ppl tend to see things just one way and ignore the other side of it.
09-10-2006, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' post='332933' date='Sep 10 2006, 07:38 PM
And i don't agree at all with the fact that alonso's fans should become michael's or whatever. Why? If michael wants to end up in style then he has to work his butt for it not for drivers to "move aside" just because the king is stepping back. If you were alonso what would you think iceman about the latests things that happened? Wouldn't you hold to the fight for the championship with your teeth?
Of course no Alnonso fan will be for Schumacher winning it, but they should.
Alonso can do whatever he wants. I don't think he has a chance to win it this season, no matter what happens. He is NOT a Michael Schumacher, no where near.
Let Alonso try to fight for it. He will lose. MS has come back from a very difficult start. Alonso and his team got nervous and made mistakes. It's Schumacher ad Ferrari now who have it in their hands. They have to give it away, if Renault wants to win.