Global Warming Protester Gets Owned
12-16-2009 | 05:02 PM
#21
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From: Originally from Koeln, Deutschland. Enjoying it in Bonita Springs, Florida Now :)
Originally Posted by swajames' post='1074965' date='Dec 16 2009, 09:00 PM
Maybe we just ought to agree to disagree. I've made all the points I wanted to make, but for what it's worth I find both Monckton and Greenpeace to be equally guilty of the crimes you attribute here just to Greenpeace. Neither party went into that discussion, or most similar discussions for that matter, with a truly open mind.
12-16-2009 | 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Krozi' post='1074966' date='Dec 16 2009, 06:02 PM
I think agree to disagree sounds good.
12-16-2009 | 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by EuroCarFan' post='1075021' date='Dec 16 2009, 09:30 PM
Agreeing to disagree never solves anything. That's the problem with this world. Can you guys please keep beating each other up so someone wins the argument?
12-16-2009 | 07:23 PM
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I'm not sure I agree, Tony. She clearly spoke English, but unless you think in English, at all times, you're not a native English speaker. Also, as a non-native speaker, you might understand the question, but may not necessarily be able to articulate a response (or be as articulate in your response). My point was really that Monckton, speaking solely in his native tongue, coming to the discussion with pre-prepared arguments and pre-prepared talking points, was in his comfort zone - the lady was obviously a little less so. Monckton knew he was holding all the cards. In essence, it was effectively an ambush of sorts of a relatively soft target who for obvious reasons was less prepared than her opposite number. Maybe if she'd known earlier in the day she was going to get accosted by a random English Lord, with an accompanying television crew, she might have been a little better able to deal with the situation 
Great points Marc, and thanks for video.
12-16-2009 | 08:27 PM
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I guess to put it another way, Monckton's guerrilla tactics here broadly mirror those adopted by our good friend Michael Moore, in that taking a predetermined and rehearsed agenda to an unprepared "victim" essentially guarantees the outcome. I'm reasonably confident that some of the posters in this very thread would be highly and predictably critical of such tactics were Mr Moore to adopt them, yet Monckton seems to be given a free pass here for deploying the same techniques in this particular ambush - and one has to suspect that this is driven more by political partisanship rather than any real intellectual consideration of the bigger picture.
Furthermore, my points effectively focused on two key tranches, only one of which touched on our hapless victim's grasp of English and linguistics in general. The other, and perhaps the primary point, is that it's almost a foregone conclusion that you'll make your victim look like an oaf when you stack the cards against them in the specific manner that Monckton did here. As I said above, were the shoe to be on the other foot and were Michael Moore to take his traditional approach when taking on an unprepared global warming skeptic, it would raise all-too-predictable ire from many here. I'm not giving Moore a free pass, his tactics leave just as much to be desired and are just as geared to skewing the outcome, but to fail to criticize Monckton for same guerrilla approach, and then to essentially hold his interviewee to a different standard (criticizing her unprepared responses to questions which themselves were rehearsed and scripted ), is tantamount to letting partisanship get in the way of proper debate.
Furthermore, my points effectively focused on two key tranches, only one of which touched on our hapless victim's grasp of English and linguistics in general. The other, and perhaps the primary point, is that it's almost a foregone conclusion that you'll make your victim look like an oaf when you stack the cards against them in the specific manner that Monckton did here. As I said above, were the shoe to be on the other foot and were Michael Moore to take his traditional approach when taking on an unprepared global warming skeptic, it would raise all-too-predictable ire from many here. I'm not giving Moore a free pass, his tactics leave just as much to be desired and are just as geared to skewing the outcome, but to fail to criticize Monckton for same guerrilla approach, and then to essentially hold his interviewee to a different standard (criticizing her unprepared responses to questions which themselves were rehearsed and scripted ), is tantamount to letting partisanship get in the way of proper debate.
12-17-2009 | 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='1075073' date='Dec 17 2009, 01:27 AM
I guess to put it another way, Monckton's guerrilla tactics here broadly mirror those adopted by our good friend Michael Moore, in that taking a predetermined and rehearsed agenda to an unprepared "victim" essentially guarantees the outcome. I'm reasonably confident that some of the posters in this very thread would be highly and predictably critical of such tactics were Mr Moore to adopt them, yet Monckton seems to be given a free pass here for deploying the same techniques in this particular ambush - and one has to suspect that this is driven more by political partisanship rather than any real intellectual consideration of the bigger picture.
Furthermore, my points effectively focused on two key tranches, only one of which touched on our hapless victim's grasp of English and linguistics in general. The other, and perhaps the primary point, is that it's almost a foregone conclusion that you'll make your victim look like an oaf when you stack the cards against them in the specific manner that Monckton did here. As I said above, were the shoe to be on the other foot and were Michael Moore to take his traditional approach when taking on an unprepared global warming skeptic, it would raise all-too-predictable ire from many here. I'm not giving Moore a free pass, his tactics leave just as much to be desired and are just as geared to skewing the outcome, but to fail to criticize Monckton for same guerrilla approach, and then to essentially hold his interviewee to a different standard (criticizing her unprepared responses to questions which themselves were rehearsed and scripted ), is tantamount to letting partisanship get in the way of proper debate.
Furthermore, my points effectively focused on two key tranches, only one of which touched on our hapless victim's grasp of English and linguistics in general. The other, and perhaps the primary point, is that it's almost a foregone conclusion that you'll make your victim look like an oaf when you stack the cards against them in the specific manner that Monckton did here. As I said above, were the shoe to be on the other foot and were Michael Moore to take his traditional approach when taking on an unprepared global warming skeptic, it would raise all-too-predictable ire from many here. I'm not giving Moore a free pass, his tactics leave just as much to be desired and are just as geared to skewing the outcome, but to fail to criticize Monckton for same guerrilla approach, and then to essentially hold his interviewee to a different standard (criticizing her unprepared responses to questions which themselves were rehearsed and scripted ), is tantamount to letting partisanship get in the way of proper debate.
maybe look at it this way.....lets say i had no position on global warming. I see this protest, so i go over and try to gather information on what they stood for. I try to talk to this lady and what the hell can she offer? from what we saw its next to nothing. If someone believes in something like she clearly does they should be able to offer something.
Some of you blast others for watching fox news and listening to people like Rush, Glenn Beck, etc. This lady is clearly believing something she has little to no knowledge about.
12-17-2009 | 03:53 PM
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From: Originally from Koeln, Deutschland. Enjoying it in Bonita Springs, Florida Now :)
Originally Posted by Alpine White Girl' post='1075467' date='Dec 17 2009, 06:26 PM
where i dont agree with you is the fact that this lady was at a protest, she wasnt a unsuspecting victim at the mall. she was protesting for a cause she believes in, yet clearly she didnt know one answer or ANY facts for that matter. She said she read reports, newspapers but didnt have one fact to come back at Monckton on why she believes in greenpeace.
maybe look at it this way.....lets say i had no position on global warming. I see this protest, so i go over and try to gather information on what they stood for. I try to talk to this lady and what the hell can she offer? from what we saw its next to nothing. If someone believes in something like she clearly does they should be able to offer something.
Some of you blast others for watching fox news and listening to people like Rush, Glenn Beck, etc. This lady is clearly believing something she has little to no knowledge about.
maybe look at it this way.....lets say i had no position on global warming. I see this protest, so i go over and try to gather information on what they stood for. I try to talk to this lady and what the hell can she offer? from what we saw its next to nothing. If someone believes in something like she clearly does they should be able to offer something.
Some of you blast others for watching fox news and listening to people like Rush, Glenn Beck, etc. This lady is clearly believing something she has little to no knowledge about.
12-17-2009 | 04:54 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by Alpine White Girl' post='1075467' date='Dec 17 2009, 03:26 PM
where i dont agree with you is the fact that this lady was at a protest, she wasnt a unsuspecting victim at the mall. she was protesting for a cause she believes in, yet clearly she didnt know one answer or ANY facts for that matter. She said she read reports, newspapers but didnt have one fact to come back at Monckton on why she believes in greenpeace.
maybe look at it this way.....lets say i had no position on global warming. I see this protest, so i go over and try to gather information on what they stood for. I try to talk to this lady and what the hell can she offer? from what we saw its next to nothing. If someone believes in something like she clearly does they should be able to offer something.
Some of you blast others for watching fox news and listening to people like Rush, Glenn Beck, etc. This lady is clearly believing something she has little to no knowledge about.
maybe look at it this way.....lets say i had no position on global warming. I see this protest, so i go over and try to gather information on what they stood for. I try to talk to this lady and what the hell can she offer? from what we saw its next to nothing. If someone believes in something like she clearly does they should be able to offer something.
Some of you blast others for watching fox news and listening to people like Rush, Glenn Beck, etc. This lady is clearly believing something she has little to no knowledge about.
12-17-2009 | 08:42 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='1075575' date='Dec 17 2009, 09:54 PM
All fair points, AWG. She certainly wasn't the best informed interviewee, I'll have to concede that... I guess I saw a couple of possible (and perhaps somewhat charitable) explanations, yours (and others) are equally possible/probable.
