British Grand Prix
06-12-2006 | 02:10 AM
#21
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This short article is pretty interesting:
http://www.atlasf1.com/2000/bra/preview/ward.html
The guy is speculating about what F1 would be like if ALL the available technology was used without limitations.
He reckons we could see 300km/h cornering at 6-7g with drivers in jet fighter suits
But ... like he says ... the safety risks would be massive.
Made me think of the 200mph plus Chrysler Patriot Hybrid - which was developed to race at Le Mans in the 1990's, but never did.
It was powered by super cooled liquified natural gas, which drove an electric engine with twin turbos.
Kinetic energy was stored in a carbon fibre flywheel which span at up to 56,000 rpm and stored the same amount of kinetic energy as a 30 tonne truck travelling at 100mph.
The slight problem was that if the flywheel got loose it would be capable of throwing the car 100 foot in the air and would be pretty much unstoppable - munching straight through concrete walls, tyre walls and spectators.
http://www.allpar.com/model/patriot.html
Anyway ... back to the ferraris - I don't think they are V10's so why do they sound like approaching thunder compared to everything else ?
http://www.atlasf1.com/2000/bra/preview/ward.html
The guy is speculating about what F1 would be like if ALL the available technology was used without limitations.
He reckons we could see 300km/h cornering at 6-7g with drivers in jet fighter suits
But ... like he says ... the safety risks would be massive.
Made me think of the 200mph plus Chrysler Patriot Hybrid - which was developed to race at Le Mans in the 1990's, but never did.
It was powered by super cooled liquified natural gas, which drove an electric engine with twin turbos.
Kinetic energy was stored in a carbon fibre flywheel which span at up to 56,000 rpm and stored the same amount of kinetic energy as a 30 tonne truck travelling at 100mph.
The slight problem was that if the flywheel got loose it would be capable of throwing the car 100 foot in the air and would be pretty much unstoppable - munching straight through concrete walls, tyre walls and spectators.
http://www.allpar.com/model/patriot.html
Anyway ... back to the ferraris - I don't think they are V10's so why do they sound like approaching thunder compared to everything else ?
06-12-2006 | 02:39 AM
#22
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I say this year is more interesting because Schey is not winning every race now. But I think the trend now is with Alonso where there's no contention which makes the season boring (not if you are a Renault fan)
I do miss the days where Prost, Senna and Mansell are duking it out neck to neck (and Senna crashing into Prost even though they are on the same team). The F1 lacks drama now so that's why is boring to some, I too think F1 is more interesting when Schuey is stirring up contraversies, but the FIA is very strict on him so he have to be a good boy otherwise he will be penalise for everything he does.
I think the FIA make regulation like same engine for the weekend and smaller cc of the engine is good but things like one tire for the entire race and one compound of tire for the weekend is just :thumbsdown:
I am sure newer tires are better in terms of safety right? Plus the pit now looks so surreal with only crew refuelling and no one is changing tires.
The FIA just took the best team with the best pit out with this move as everybody just fill it up to the top and less pit stop is the only stradegy now which is not good for the sport, I think they really should change it.
I do miss the days where Prost, Senna and Mansell are duking it out neck to neck (and Senna crashing into Prost even though they are on the same team). The F1 lacks drama now so that's why is boring to some, I too think F1 is more interesting when Schuey is stirring up contraversies, but the FIA is very strict on him so he have to be a good boy otherwise he will be penalise for everything he does.
I think the FIA make regulation like same engine for the weekend and smaller cc of the engine is good but things like one tire for the entire race and one compound of tire for the weekend is just :thumbsdown:
I am sure newer tires are better in terms of safety right? Plus the pit now looks so surreal with only crew refuelling and no one is changing tires.
The FIA just took the best team with the best pit out with this move as everybody just fill it up to the top and less pit stop is the only stradegy now which is not good for the sport, I think they really should change it.
06-12-2006 | 02:47 AM
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My Ride: In a place where the Mercedes density is the highest in the world (no. of MB per square kilometer) I choose a Bimmer, why? because of one thing "The Ultimate Driving Experience"
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Originally Posted by needforspeed' post='296288' date='Jun 12 2006, 06:10 PM
Anyway ... back to the ferraris - I don't think they are V10's so why do they sound like approaching thunder compared to everything else ?
06-12-2006 | 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by AC_S5' post='296294' date='Jun 12 2006, 01:47 PM
Because is a Ferrari
But if you were talking about Ferrari F1 then well i do bealive that the sound in F1 is pretty much the same because of the same rules that let teams develop the engines/cars. Only slightly different in tune from team to team. It's not like Ferrari is the God of sound and the other sound like...diesels
06-12-2006 | 05:12 AM
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My Ride: In a place where the Mercedes density is the highest in the world (no. of MB per square kilometer) I choose a Bimmer, why? because of one thing "The Ultimate Driving Experience"
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' post='296300' date='Jun 12 2006, 07:33 PM
I don't agree with that. If you were talking about Ferrari and their legacy to build road cars that are very loud and agressive and sporty...yes i do agree...but in this case i honestly bealive there is not better sounding car than the Porsche Carrera GT. That's my opinion and i do dare to say that i have never heard a better sound from a road car or even almost from a 100% race car.
But if you were talking about Ferrari F1 then well i do bealive that the sound in F1 is pretty much the same because of the same rules that let teams develop the engines/cars. Only slightly different in tune from team to team. It's not like Ferrari is the God of sound and the other sound like...diesels
But if you were talking about Ferrari F1 then well i do bealive that the sound in F1 is pretty much the same because of the same rules that let teams develop the engines/cars. Only slightly different in tune from team to team. It's not like Ferrari is the God of sound and the other sound like...diesels
06-12-2006 | 07:37 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' post='296300' date='Jun 12 2006, 12:33 PM
But if you were talking about Ferrari F1 then well i do bealive that the sound in F1 is pretty much the same because of the same rules that let teams develop the engines/cars. Only slightly different in tune from team to team. It's not like Ferrari is the God of sound and the other sound like...diesels
). Where I was sat I got to see the cars decelerate from 200 mph down to just over 100 for the corner, then floor it on the way out. The noise was simply awesome - all cars had the screaming howling high pitched engine note you expect due to the high revving engines - but there were slight differences and if anything the hondas (running last) sounded even more piercing.
The deceleration sounds were beautiful (kind of like the pod racer noises in Star Wars: The Phantom Menance) loads of blipping and crackling as unburned fuel was burned off during the downshifts.
The ferraris though stood out with a quite different engine note. The 'crackling' and 'barking' on deceleration was just deeper, loader and harsher than on the other cars.
We had a thunder storm today and when the thunder rolled right overhead - I thought - that's what they sound like (or a series of distant explosions).
There's definately a difference, which is strange given the control over the specification and I would love to understand why.
06-12-2006 | 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by 700700' post='295857' date='Jun 11 2006, 04:13 PM
you and about 7 other people not watching the world cup
06-12-2006 | 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by needforspeed' post='296253' date='Jun 12 2006, 09:39 AM
I was big into F1 in the early 1990's and sort of lost touch with it for a while.
Back then I had a circle of friends who also liked motorsport, which helped to stimulate my interest and there were also some interesting personalities (Mansell / Senna / Prost) and battles (How many times did mansell battle and battle to win races, but let the championship slide through his grasp!).
Norham - you are entitled to your opinion and your comments are nothing new. I think I understand why you say this - but I totally disagree.
These guys are driving incredible cars on the limit for 90 mins. The reason that it looks like a procession is that they are pretty much all at the top of their game and are squeezing everything out of the car that is physically possible - the gains and losses relative to other cars are necessarily gradual because of the laws of physics.
They aren't screaming around the bends smoking their tyres because:
1. It would make them slower.
2. The cars are so finely balanced that they would end up in the wall or dead if they tried to drift.
3. They need to take the long view and do nothing that would kill their car before the end of the race.
They aren't constantly overtaking because:
1. All the drivers and cars are at the peak of their ability.
2. The differences between the cars and drivers are VERY slight. The Renaults / McClarens and Ferraris are clearly mechanically better - but only VERY VERY slightly.
As to pit tactics winning the race - this is no different to any endurance racing in athletics or motorsports. Tactics are essential and one of the interesting things about yesterdays race is that they all seemed to be running the same game.
If you look at a race superficially you might be able to say it isn't an exiting spectacle - certainly there are not lots of crashes / drifting / expolosions / streakers etc...
You can't get away with claiming it is not 'racing'.......
I think ultimately, to dismiss F1 as a boring procession is to dismiss the abilities of some of the best drivers and engineers in the world. Before doing so I think you need to consider how you would manage if you were in the race - I think there would be a LOT of overtaking then
How would you propose to make it more interesting - make the cars faster and more dangerous so we can watch some more crashes? Or tell the drivers to make more mistakes?
Back then I had a circle of friends who also liked motorsport, which helped to stimulate my interest and there were also some interesting personalities (Mansell / Senna / Prost) and battles (How many times did mansell battle and battle to win races, but let the championship slide through his grasp!).
Norham - you are entitled to your opinion and your comments are nothing new. I think I understand why you say this - but I totally disagree.
These guys are driving incredible cars on the limit for 90 mins. The reason that it looks like a procession is that they are pretty much all at the top of their game and are squeezing everything out of the car that is physically possible - the gains and losses relative to other cars are necessarily gradual because of the laws of physics.
They aren't screaming around the bends smoking their tyres because:
1. It would make them slower.
2. The cars are so finely balanced that they would end up in the wall or dead if they tried to drift.
3. They need to take the long view and do nothing that would kill their car before the end of the race.
They aren't constantly overtaking because:
1. All the drivers and cars are at the peak of their ability.
2. The differences between the cars and drivers are VERY slight. The Renaults / McClarens and Ferraris are clearly mechanically better - but only VERY VERY slightly.
As to pit tactics winning the race - this is no different to any endurance racing in athletics or motorsports. Tactics are essential and one of the interesting things about yesterdays race is that they all seemed to be running the same game.
If you look at a race superficially you might be able to say it isn't an exiting spectacle - certainly there are not lots of crashes / drifting / expolosions / streakers etc...
You can't get away with claiming it is not 'racing'.......
I think ultimately, to dismiss F1 as a boring procession is to dismiss the abilities of some of the best drivers and engineers in the world. Before doing so I think you need to consider how you would manage if you were in the race - I think there would be a LOT of overtaking then
How would you propose to make it more interesting - make the cars faster and more dangerous so we can watch some more crashes? Or tell the drivers to make more mistakes?
06-12-2006 | 11:03 PM
#29
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My Ride: In a place where the Mercedes density is the highest in the world (no. of MB per square kilometer) I choose a Bimmer, why? because of one thing "The Ultimate Driving Experience"
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523i Steptronic, Silver Grey Exterior, Black Interior with Black Dakota Leather and Maple Wood Trim. Chrome Grill, Style 123 rim, Airbags everywhere, PDC, Rain sensor, Auto lights, Moveable front armrest, Advance Climate Control, Glass Sunroof, Auto dimming interior and exterior mirror with foldable functions, Extended Lights package, 6 CD changer in glove box, Power seats with memory, Power adjustable steering wheel, Power rear sunblinds.
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Originally Posted by norham' post='296756' date='Jun 13 2006, 12:55 PM
As you have a strong opinion on this tell me how many circuits are designed to pass on and at how many points on these circuits can you pass out of the 8 so far at least 3 have no passing opportunities why would anyone want to drive around these for 90mins behind another car and who would want to watch a 150mph procession?. Wake up the race is invaribly settled in a 5 minute window on Saturday. Bernie, ITV and that fool Allen have obviously got to you with the hype, goodness sake they were still flogging tickets up to last Friday now when in the past has that happened I'm afraid its on the way out and isn't Renault pulling out after this year why's that I ask. Look at the celebrities on the grid my god a who's who of the racing world I don't think. Its dying and its only a matter of time. It even makes Indy racing look good. Oh I for got drivers driving now thats being conservative with the truth its play station man theres no driving going on there
Alonso is winning alot of races but he's not exciting to watch at all which makes me less into F1 nowadays.
06-13-2006 | 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by norham' post='296756' date='Jun 13 2006, 05:55 AM
As you have a strong opinion on this tell me how many circuits are designed to pass on and at how many points on these circuits can you pass out of the 8 so far at least 3 have no passing opportunities why would anyone want to drive around these for 90mins behind another car and who would want to watch a 150mph procession?. Wake up the race is invaribly settled in a 5 minute window on Saturday. Bernie, ITV and that fool Allen have obviously got to you with the hype, goodness sake they were still flogging tickets up to last Friday now when in the past has that happened I'm afraid its on the way out and isn't Renault pulling out after this year why's that I ask. Look at the celebrities on the grid my god a who's who of the racing world I don't think. Its dying and its only a matter of time. It even makes Indy racing look good. Oh I for got drivers driving now thats being conservative with the truth its play station man theres no driving going on there
In my post I explained why there is not a lot of overtaking. It's possible to pass on every circuit and there was a fair bit of overtaking at the beginning of Sundays race - it's just limited because of what I said earlier.
150 mile an hour procession - no way - where I sat they were decelerating from 200-100mph then rocketing out of the bend to 150mph or so. The AVERAGE speed around Silverstone is 160mph - it's a fast circuit but it's not completely undemanding.
I think your argument that there is no driving is completely hilarious - how do you think you would manage?
Like I said chuck in a few rubbish drivers and we'll get more overtaking - does that make it a better race?
It's clear you don't appreciate F1 at all (which I find bizarre given you have chosen a McLaren F1 car as your avatar) - OK fair enough - so why don't you post in a thread which isn't about F1?