swajames

Actually, no. The E-Class numbers are posted for comparison, I did not state or imply that one was better or worse then the other.

While the E-Class has, traditionally sold more units per year than the 5 Series, the question of which car is "better" will always be a subjective one - with the only opinion that matters being the one belonging to the buyer.

The point under debate was not whether the E-Class is better because it is the better selling car. None of the posts here suggested that it was. The question is whether the initial F10 sales may have been better than they were had BMW stayed true to the design philosophies of the E39 and E60. I've been very consistent in my view of the F10 which is that BMW risks losing its edge and differentiation by building a car which has fewer distinguishing features from the competition. In the past, BMW always got the balance exactly right in blending the sportiness of the Three with the size and comfort of the Seven. With the F10, BMW has decided to embed far more DNA from the seven than the three. My own view is that this is a mistake and a risk, BMW benefits from being and thinking different and with the F10 it's building a car which while very good is much harder to distinguish from the E-Class (and the A6) in terms of its market positioning. The homogenization of the segment isn't something that the enthusiasts amongst us ought to embrace. BMW builds a sporty car better than MB, but BMW can't build a luxury car as well as MB. The question is what does BMW want to be? With the F10, we're seeing the clearest evidence yet that BMW thinks its customers now prioritize luxury, comfort and poise over performance, feedback, and handling. While I can understand this to some extent, I think they're underestimating how many buyers prefer things the way they were.

Petes550i

No use complaining about what the F10 is or isn't. It is what it is.

BMW doesn't solely revolve around the 5 series, they have many other models to suit the so-called "enthusiast."
If the F10 isn't sporty enough, get the 335i or the M3 or the M5 or the M6.

Like I said, we'll see what the numbers are a year from now and then we'll be in a better position to judge the car from a sales perspective.

BTW, don't you think the guys at BMW didn't think long and hard about what the F10 was going to be? The F10 is no accident. They've spent years and millions in R&D to come up with the car they currently have. They are just giving us a car that the Majority of their customers want to have. The 5 series is one of the most storied model lineups ever and is one of the best-selling lines at BMW.....I highly doubt the company would give us a car that they didn't put a lot of thought and effort into.

Ricracing

What are you swajames trying to indicate here?

The BMW F10/11/13 sales will improve as the Dingolfing factory gets their very fine cars out.

My F10 is better built than my E60, but of course it will improve during the next years.

Porsche has manufactured the same car (911) for some 46 years and it's pretty good now.
But what Volkswagen will do with the car is unknown, the future will tell.

Just give BMW a few months, they for sure know what they are doing.

swajames

the question, Riku, is whether the marketplace is embracing BMW's new direction. Even the smartest companies - and BMW is in this category - can and do make some very poor judgment calls and some very expensive mistakes, perhaps due to hubris and and thinking they know better than their customers what it is that their customers actually want. We're all agreed that time will tell whether or not BMW got it right. As owners you guys already voted with your wallets and I'm glad you're enjoying your cars, all I am saying is that for me the jury is still out.

Ricracing

The F10 is for sure not a poor judgement at BMW nor a mistake.

Will you buy VW or BMW stocks or something else?

SergeyM

... and they made a mistake. Both weight and price went up too much. The hell with the price BMW can counter-balance it with cheap leases (at least in US) but weight? What were they thinking? Now we have 4,400 lb BMW 5500 with 400 horses going against 4,100 XFS with 470bhp and 4,000 lb E550 which going to get 4.6 litre twin-turbo engine with 430bhp and 516 lb/ft torgue for 2011. Not good at all.

PlanB

They aren't necessarily giving us the car that the majority of the customers want, they're giving us the car that majority of the people will find accepatble while turning as much profit as possible. The fact that millions of dollars were spent on R&D doesn't mean they hit the mark. Companies miss the mark all the time, especially when internal operational changes are present.

Petes550i

It may be a "mistake" to you but not to me. The car has more than enough power and as C&D's stats has shown recently, the 550i can more than hold its own against anything in its class.

Why worry about next years cars?....There's always going to be something better down the road. That's technology. If you're on the fence and are patient, then wait and see what comes next.

Petes550i

How do you know if the F10 is merely an "acceptable" car to the majority of people? Did you just conduct a scientific poll?

I agree that a lot of money spent on R&D doesn't necessarily mean an automatic success. However, BMW is not GM or Chrysler. Last time I checked, they have a pretty good track record, especially when it comes to the 5 series.

But as I said many times before, let's wait and give it at least a year to see what the actual numbers are. Then we'll know if BMW made the right call. Right now, it's way too premature and any speculation or notion about its fate is ridiculous.

550i now

All I have to add is that as a 2X E60 owner, the F10 leaves me numb....I am very happy to own a dynamic , distinctive high performance late model every day car.

In its current F10 variation the 5er seems like a pretty vanilla, hard to distinguish ... heavy .. variant that just does not deliver on the BMW promise..The Ultimate Driving Machine, NOT!

No wonder sales are mediocre...

That said, I'm holding onto my 550i