sdg1871

Look, the NA V10 is an incredible engine. No one disputes that. It is basically a Formula 1 engine in a streetable car.

But there are areas that need improvement in my book, number one being low end torque/off the line power. It is ridiculous that a stock 550 is as fast or faster coming off the line from about 0 to 20 than a stock M5. But (as I have found out at our meets) it is. From a standing start, the M5's NA engine needs to get up in the rev range to be in the heart of its power band. Before it does, it is slow. Once it does, of course, it leaves the 550 standing in the dust.

But why should a 550 be faster than a M5 from 0 to 20? It shouldn't be. The M5 should blow a 550 away at any speed at any revs. The next M5 should blow away an E63 or a CTS-V in an acceleration run. And the next M5 will.

The reason why BMW won't build a NA engine for the next V10 is the poor fuel economy generated by large displacement NA engines. It's unfortunate but that's the way the automotive world is shaping up. I hold out hope than BMW will build a TTV10 for the M5, but given that it already has a very very powerful TTV8 in the X5M and the X6M, it makes a lot more economic sense to tweak that engine for the next M5.

Maybe BMW will surprise us and offer a massive NA engine for the next M5. But that is not what the car mags and blogs indicate is likely to happen.

m630

I can only share mho, but I don't see it that way

The Ms are not slow in any way, shape, or form period! The S85 is pure genious in engineering as its multi-year run as intl engine of the year clearly shows. They are not drag cars though! If 0-20 is the biggest complaint you hear from any other beast owner, then you should laugh along with me! The beauty of the S85 is the fact that you have to drive it to feel it, I find no fun at all in having the full torque and power immediate off the line, its not at all useable in our world! At least in the current iterantion, you can feel the engine building up power as you climb up the tach. What fun would a 0-60 time of 3 seconds for ex be?(Just illustrative) in our real world, you can't drive much faster than 50-60 locally, so what use is a car that is so fast and so torquey right off the line?? You will get 4 second enjoyment and then have to coast in neutral basically...I'm tellin you from real world experience, you cannot want more power than the S85 delivers day to day. Sure if ure a track runner you'd want a diffeent type of car, but for sports/lux saloon or GT, the setup is perfect.

Regarding fuel efficiency, no problems at all, the range could be better with a larger tank, but you wouldn't complain if you bought a ferrari about mpg. Well the m5-m6 are the ferraris of germany. Simple tech upgrade to direct injection could also improve current efficiency without radical changes. Turbo is not the answer and the abominations knows as wanna b m trucks are meaningless to me, they show nothing other than greed.

Regarding the competition, don't bet on the next m to be faster than the amgs. Mb did it right, they listened to the enthusiasts and built a big block NA monster, I'm jealous!! Its almost certain that the next m's will not be faster than the amgs or cts-vs.

And keep in mind the volumes we r talkin here, last year, worldwide only 1100 e63 m6 were sold, the overal impact on cafe standards are inconsequential, they do not need to go here, the market for these type of vehicles doesn't demand this at all.

We'll have to wait and see, but perhaps m will win as many new owners like yourself as it will lose like me. The only question is whether the traditionalist intangibles will affect the future sentiments, as far as I'm concerned, they are selling out.

Maybe I need to let u drive the beast all day and then you can experience what I mean, I'm 100% sure you'd have a different opinion.

sdg1871

Excellent post my friend. I sure don't think the M5 and M6 are slow (and if I could find someone to assume my 550 lease, I'd get one right now). I just think they could be faster off the line. No doubt that once rolling, they are among the fastest sedans in the world. The acceleration of those cars once the engine is in the heart of its powerband is astonishing.

Any time you want to swap cars for a day, let me know.

No doubt that MB built a beautiful engine in its AMG "63" cars.

Richard in NC

Good points but you do contradict yourself. You don't need the low end torque but you are jealous of those that have it.

I have always been a fan of torquey V8s. The BMW V8s add that high tech sound and feel. The E39 M5 was a great motor for around town civility efficiency and performance yet it delivered in spades when asked to.

At first I really wanted the new M5 (although I wished they put the M6 sound into the M5) but didn't want the SMG issues of the early M5s, the fuel economy penalty, and the $25k additional cost for performance I couldn't use in the U.S.

BTW, if the turbo V8s are anything like the TT I6, I wouldn't mind it at all. The Z4 3.0 TT has great all-around performance, and when combined with the DCT, is quite impressive. The TT 3.0 I6 is a bit out of character for current ///Ms but could be made to fit right in as would a TT V8.

pipper

edmunds says theyve confirmed its gonna be a TT V8...similar, if not the same as the X6M engine....~555 bhp.

pukka

Now I wonder what BMW is developing a V-12 for?

m630

its in the new F01 760, and also shared with RR

imposss

I hope that they gonna release M5 at the same year as regular 5, like amg do.