rsyed

Have been a long member on e60.net - goes back to 2005 when I bought my first e60. Since then I have owned 4 different e60/e61s whilst also having flirted with a x6 and a e90 in 2009. Bottom line, I love the e60: it is by far the best car I drove and having owned every single gadget across the 4 different e60/e61s I must admit I have fallen in love with some (like active steering, comfort seats) and some I could never value.

With the f10 introduced this year in March, I always knew that eventually I would have to move away from the e60. When the m-sport package was introduced I jumped the boat and ordered a f10 with the extras I found right without actually having driven a single mile with the f10. I sat in one for 3 minutes and that was it. I thought to myself: you can't go wrong with the evolution of the e60.

As time progressed, there were more reviews on the f10 by e60 drivers who claimed the handling was too soft, the steering not direct, the m-suspension not availabe in the US jaddah jaddah jaddah.. I never posted anything then but thought I would do now. here my random thoughts (no offense to anyone):
1) if you find the steering too indirect, take the integral active steering. I once had an e60 without active steering and 6 months later I returned it the dealer. A bmw without active steering is half the fun..
2) if the handling is too soft, take the adaptive drive and put the car in sports mode plus. if you don't have that option, lower the car by 10-20mm. Does not cost a fortune and you have your desired effect
3) if still the handling is not good enough, take bigger alloys. Please bear in mind, the 19" of a f10 does not have the same driving effect as a e60 since a 19" on a f10 has more rubber (5% more height) than a 19" on a e60. To do a fair comparision, you need to compare a 20" f10 with a 19" e60. And remember RFT vs NON-RFT... That is also a path one can go to improve handling..
4) Even if the m-suspension is not available, the car is NOT a deal breaker. Are you guys in the US aware how many people would love to buy a car with adaptive drive but can't afford it becuase the option costs over 4000 USD (just AD) in Europe??? In your case, you pay an additional 1500 usd on top of the m-package and you get the comfort seats and AD: these two alone cost about 7000 USD in europe. What I am saying: with AD you are getting something better than the m-suspesion. Same with alcantara seats - alot of the US folks loved the alcantara seats - you guys are aware that this is the "cheaper poor-man's" option in europe. we pay 3000 usd just to upgrade from these alcantara seats to leather. The grass ain't greener on the other side!!

You don't have to be a genious to see that the cars are growing - look at the audi a4 - it was once about 4,5m - now it is 4,7m, just 10cm (4") short of a e60. the f10 went the trend and got bigger. and guess what the new 3 series wont be staying this small either if it wants to compete with teh a4. So as the car grows, handling changes but hey, how many of us race our e60s and f10s specially you folks in the US? driving constant at 70mph on the straight 101? let us be fair - we use our cars as daily commuter and we are not exposed to autobahn driving at flat out 165 mph on a daily basis. So let us not overvalue the "handling" issue...

Since I ordered the car, I have driven the f10 for 20 mins. What impressed me most was the fact that the inside was very luxurious - and no i could not judge the handling as the car only had 17" alloys, rft tires, no sport suspension, no active steering But I have full faith in BMW by claiming that my configuration (20" alloys, non-rft tires, m-sport suspension (no money available for AD) and active steering) will be on par with the handling of the e60s I have owned...

Good luck to everyone with the f10s and e60s - peace

hinckley

Good post rsyed. Although some of the gripes are right on, we probably are whining a bit too much about the F10.

We are obviously confused about one thing though that you could help with - what is the difference between the M-sport suspension and the Adaptive or Dynamic suspension?

Scandic24

Good post. Puts some things in a different perspective. Thanks.

v_therussian

Good post. For the most part I'd add that tires in general - not just RFT vs. non-RFT - play a major role in handling. No adaptive drive would ever compensate for lack of grippier tires. I've seen 550i Sport on all-season 19s get outhandled by a 328 on 17-inch summer RFT's. Tires are probably the biggest factor in handling.

Don't forget also, that as you go higher in tire performance, you'll be getting stiffer sidewalls. Stiffer sidewalls, in turn, will also be more communicative - which may compensate some for the alleged numb steering feel.

Lastly, by FAR - and I mean by a whole lotta "far"! - the worst thing I've read/heard about the F10 handling was from some magazine, where one reviewer wrote something like having this numb steering results in not being able to feel the road surface accurately in maneuvers. This leads to loss of confidence - or on the opposite end, to loss of control of the car unpredictably. My love for the E60 started with it's ability to communicate almost as if it is connected into my brain directly. To me personally, that provides a whole new dimension in car ownership, and if F10 lost that ability, then I won't be an F10 customer... well, maybe if I get a Cayman/Boxster for the weekends

MarkLL

I agree. My only real complaint about my F10 is the lack of a spare tire, which limits me to RFTs.

rsyed

This is my interpretation of the technology:

Adaptive Drive = Dynamic damping control + dynamic drive

dynamic dampling control: there are sensors on each suspension that taps the movement 400 times every second. The electronic is so fast that if your front wheel goes over a pothole, the rear wheel can adjust the shock absorber of the rear wheel just that you feel as little of the pothole as possible. Obvoiusly the softer the adjustment (comfort mode) the less fun you have while cornering. I assume in sports mode, the shock absorbers make the drive stiffer and harder giving you the feeling you have with a sports suspension such as the m-suspension.

Dynamic drive: same as it was with the e60. the car is stabilized when cornering so that you actively counteract body roll - basically, it avoids the car tilting to one one while cornering.

And so what is the m-suspension: a lowered springs (10mm) and stiffer shock absorbers. As you can see from the above, technically speaking you can emulate the m-suspension with the sports mode of the adaptive drive. Basically with that oyu get the best of both worlds: comfort and yet the sporty touch to your drive.

HOWEVER, there are people who argue that they are not willing to spend 4000 USD in EU for an option that gives you hard sporty suspension that you anyway want to have the whole time - these people try out the adaptive drive and claim that they anyway want to constantly drive in sports mode: if you anyway do that, it really does not add any benefit to take a 4000 usd option. I for myself opted for other extras and just took the "standard" m-suspension.

MitchBMW

Good Point. But my thing has never been about how it drives, or handles. I've alwasy said that I'm sure it's a great car. My problem first and formost is that it is a boring, non aggressive LOOKING car. And it's big. And before you say it, yes I know, I can add whatever kit to make it look better, but guess what? I don't want to spend more money just to make my brand new BMW look good. The thing is ugly. So I personally care about what my car looks like more than what the latest trend is.. what everyone else thinks or likes... I do care about how the car drives, but it's not all about that for me. So if BMW has to follow the rules of everyone else and get bigger and boring looking... then so be it, but I will just keep my E60 as long as I can.. and then see what else is out there. BMWs are great cars.. and I'm GLAD that I have mine so I'm not hating at all. I love them. But if it's ugly, I don't care who makes it...it's ugly. My E60 is still in it's stock form with the exception of wheels. And my opinion is that it looks GREAT! Adding just wheels to the F10 will not make it look GREAT! AND THIS IS 100% ONLY MY OPINION.

pukka

Amen to that.

I don't care what the car is capable of, not-so-good looks are hard to get over and right now the F10 looks more like a mud duck instead of a swan. Dare I say it - the new Jag's looks are way better.

Ricracing

Nice going rsyed How true.

For those who wants a optimum handling F10, orders the M sport chassis (and Package, available from the September production) and the Adaptive Drive package and the Integral Active Steering and non-RF 20" tires (even the 19" wheels looks small on the F10).

Gene

right, so we have to pay for options that used to come standard...brilliant....

but then again, so is the nature of the beast...


***cue Pete550i....