The F10 5 Series IS your daddy's 7 Series
10-01-2010, 04:48 AM
#21
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As the car exists in the physical world we live in, it is bound by the laws that govern our reality, so what this means is, the resulting driving experience is a function of the exact things we are discussing, height, length, width, mass; you don't see too many race tracks with tanks being driven around it now do u? 
10-01-2010, 05:41 AM
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My Ride: 11 550i Sophisto Gray/Oyster Black/Anthracite, Sprt Trns, DHP, IAS, SP, PP1, PP2, CWP, HUD, DAP, AVSP, SF RS, CA, ACC - Euro Del
The upcoming F30 will undoubtedly be the size of the E39. Hopefully that will have the sport factor that some of us lust for.
10-01-2010, 06:13 AM
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As the car exists in the physical world we live in, it is bound by the laws that govern our reality, so what this means is, the resulting driving experience is a function of the exact things we are discussing, height, length, width, mass; you don't see too many race tracks with tanks being driven around it now do u?
10-01-2010, 06:25 AM
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F10 is nice, believe me, but just not unique enough and I don't like driving a car that looks like the 7'er--if, I did, I woulda bought a 7er.
10-01-2010, 08:28 AM
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Just thought it would be fun to see how our beloved 5 series has evolved from a sports sedan to a luxury cruiser...
Many believe the F10 is the reincarnation of the E39, but that couldnt be further from the truth.
E39 2002 540i
Wheelbase 2830 mm 111.4 in
Track front 1516 mm 59.7 in
rear 1530 mm 60.2 in
Length 4775 mm 188 in
Width 1800 mm 70.9 in
Height 1435 mm 56.5 in
Kerb weight 1705 kg 3759 lb
E60 2005 550i
Wheelbase 2888 mm 113.7 in
Track front 1558 mm 61.3 in
rear 1582 mm 62.3 in
Length 4841 mm 190.6 in
Width 1846 mm 72.7 in
Height 1468 mm 57.8 in
Kerb weight 1735 kg 3825 lb
F10 2011 550i
Wheelbase 2968 mm 116.9
Track front 1600 mm 63.0in
rear 1627 mm 64.1in
Length 193.1in
Width 1860 mm 73.2in
Height 1464 mm 57.6in
Kerb weight 4376lbs
In looking at the numbers, the E39 to E60 was a rather smooth transition to a larger class vehicle, but at the same time, retained its weight with minimal gains (66lb increase) due to the larger dimensions.
But, when we look at the E60 to F10, the numbers show a stark contrast for a car in the same class/segment...More than 3inches in wheelbase, more than 550lbs heavier!
And in the phantom comparisons of the E39 to F10, where some propose that those that loved the E39 will flock to the F10 now because of the less controversial design elements, those E39 folks will be in for a real shock when they get behind the wheel...the F10 is 5.5 inches longer in wheelbase, and 617 more pounds! I would like to hear from anyone that has an E39 that drove the F10 back to back to get their feelings on this increase in mass.
Now, in looking back in time, 1998, the E38 7er:
E38 '98 740i
Wheelbase 2930 mm 115.4 in
Track front 1552 mm 61.1 in
rear 1568 mm 61.7 in
Length 4984 mm 196.2 in
Width 1862 mm 73.3 in
Height 1435 mm 56.5 in
Kerb weight 1885 kg 4156 lb
So, the F10 has a longer wheelbase and weighs 220lbs more that a 7er just 10 years removed!
And even comparing to the E65:
E65 2001 745i
Wheelbase 2990 mm 117.7 in
Track front 1586 mm 62.4 in
rear 1590 mm 62.6 in
Length 5029 mm 198.0 in
Width 1902 mm 74.9 in
Height 1492 mm 58.7 in
Kerb weight 1945 kg 4288 lb
Just 0.8 of an inch differentiates the F10 from the E65 in wheelbase, and still, the F10 weighs 98 lbs more!
So, while no one argues or would argue that the F10 is a refined luxury sedan, it has grown to proportions that take it out of its own class size, and ultimately has killed the notion that the 5 series is a Sports saloon, its a full size luxury vehicle with lots of power, and it certainly is BIGGER than your Daddy's 7 Series.
So whats left for a 4 door Sports saloon from BMW??? Leaving out the Gran Coupe since it will be big for sure, (perhaps bigger than F10) that only leaves one model...Looking at the current E90 which has grown as well over the past decade, one can deduce that the F30 will grow approx to the exact size dimensions as the former E39 5 series, just add a couple of inches to the wheelbase and about 200lbs, and its a near match...
2010 E90 335i
Wheelbase 2760 mm 108.7 in
Track front 1500 mm 59.1 in
rear 1529 mm 60.2 in
Length 4531 mm 178.4 in
Width 1817 mm 71.5 in
Height 1421 mm 55.9 in
Kerb weight 1625 kg 3583 lb
And the sad news about the F30 is that supposedly M has already decided NOT to make a 4door M3 due to the low sales of the E90 M3 (guess they didnt hear about our members support!), so there may not be any future agile, 4door, sports saloon available from M :thumbsdown:
***note to Pete, there is no point to this thread, just sharing facts
Many believe the F10 is the reincarnation of the E39, but that couldnt be further from the truth.
E39 2002 540i
Wheelbase 2830 mm 111.4 in
Track front 1516 mm 59.7 in
rear 1530 mm 60.2 in
Length 4775 mm 188 in
Width 1800 mm 70.9 in
Height 1435 mm 56.5 in
Kerb weight 1705 kg 3759 lb
E60 2005 550i
Wheelbase 2888 mm 113.7 in
Track front 1558 mm 61.3 in
rear 1582 mm 62.3 in
Length 4841 mm 190.6 in
Width 1846 mm 72.7 in
Height 1468 mm 57.8 in
Kerb weight 1735 kg 3825 lb
F10 2011 550i
Wheelbase 2968 mm 116.9
Track front 1600 mm 63.0in
rear 1627 mm 64.1in
Length 193.1in
Width 1860 mm 73.2in
Height 1464 mm 57.6in
Kerb weight 4376lbs
In looking at the numbers, the E39 to E60 was a rather smooth transition to a larger class vehicle, but at the same time, retained its weight with minimal gains (66lb increase) due to the larger dimensions.
But, when we look at the E60 to F10, the numbers show a stark contrast for a car in the same class/segment...More than 3inches in wheelbase, more than 550lbs heavier!
And in the phantom comparisons of the E39 to F10, where some propose that those that loved the E39 will flock to the F10 now because of the less controversial design elements, those E39 folks will be in for a real shock when they get behind the wheel...the F10 is 5.5 inches longer in wheelbase, and 617 more pounds! I would like to hear from anyone that has an E39 that drove the F10 back to back to get their feelings on this increase in mass.
Now, in looking back in time, 1998, the E38 7er:
E38 '98 740i
Wheelbase 2930 mm 115.4 in
Track front 1552 mm 61.1 in
rear 1568 mm 61.7 in
Length 4984 mm 196.2 in
Width 1862 mm 73.3 in
Height 1435 mm 56.5 in
Kerb weight 1885 kg 4156 lb
So, the F10 has a longer wheelbase and weighs 220lbs more that a 7er just 10 years removed!
And even comparing to the E65:
E65 2001 745i
Wheelbase 2990 mm 117.7 in
Track front 1586 mm 62.4 in
rear 1590 mm 62.6 in
Length 5029 mm 198.0 in
Width 1902 mm 74.9 in
Height 1492 mm 58.7 in
Kerb weight 1945 kg 4288 lb
Just 0.8 of an inch differentiates the F10 from the E65 in wheelbase, and still, the F10 weighs 98 lbs more!
So, while no one argues or would argue that the F10 is a refined luxury sedan, it has grown to proportions that take it out of its own class size, and ultimately has killed the notion that the 5 series is a Sports saloon, its a full size luxury vehicle with lots of power, and it certainly is BIGGER than your Daddy's 7 Series.
So whats left for a 4 door Sports saloon from BMW??? Leaving out the Gran Coupe since it will be big for sure, (perhaps bigger than F10) that only leaves one model...Looking at the current E90 which has grown as well over the past decade, one can deduce that the F30 will grow approx to the exact size dimensions as the former E39 5 series, just add a couple of inches to the wheelbase and about 200lbs, and its a near match...
2010 E90 335i
Wheelbase 2760 mm 108.7 in
Track front 1500 mm 59.1 in
rear 1529 mm 60.2 in
Length 4531 mm 178.4 in
Width 1817 mm 71.5 in
Height 1421 mm 55.9 in
Kerb weight 1625 kg 3583 lb
And the sad news about the F30 is that supposedly M has already decided NOT to make a 4door M3 due to the low sales of the E90 M3 (guess they didnt hear about our members support!), so there may not be any future agile, 4door, sports saloon available from M :thumbsdown:
***note to Pete, there is no point to this thread, just sharing facts
10-01-2010, 08:32 AM
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10-01-2010, 09:12 AM
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As for the F30 M3, Roundel has an article in I believe last months edition about this, and I also read it somewhere else...I hope its wrong but....
10-01-2010, 10:20 AM
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My Ride: My ex-ride: EU '08 LCI 520dA. Space Grey, Sport Seats in Black Leather/Fabric Anthracite, Sport Steering Wheel, A/C with Extended Features, Hi-Fi Speakers, Cup Holders, Cruise with Braking function, Folding Rear Seats, Xenons, Park Distance Control.
Nice and interesting post m630 and thanks for the metrics.
I'm as you guys know, all the way a F10 man and for a very good reason,
it's a very nice car and better than the E60 in most ways.
The increase in weight made the car more silent and luxurious.
And my new F10 is more economical than my LCI E60 was!
Weight gave it also a five star car in the EuroNCAP as in a similar test in US.
The E60 was only a four star car.
But there's one thing I wonder about...
E60
Length 4841 mm 190.6 in
Width 1846 mm 72.7 in
F10
Length 4899 mm 193.1 in
Width 1860 mm 73.2in
(Did fill in the metric lenght for the F10).
The F10 is 6 cm longer (2,5 in) but only 1,4 cm (0,5 in) wider than the E60,
but the car feels a lot wider both inside and outside.
I drive a lot on narrow downtown streets and parking lots etc and there's no visibility of the cars front corners.
Even with the help of the PDC, which often howls and shows red all the way, this is hard.
I'm as you guys know, all the way a F10 man and for a very good reason,
it's a very nice car and better than the E60 in most ways.
The increase in weight made the car more silent and luxurious.
And my new F10 is more economical than my LCI E60 was!
Weight gave it also a five star car in the EuroNCAP as in a similar test in US.
The E60 was only a four star car.
But there's one thing I wonder about...
E60
Length 4841 mm 190.6 in
Width 1846 mm 72.7 in
F10
Length 4899 mm 193.1 in
Width 1860 mm 73.2in
(Did fill in the metric lenght for the F10).
The F10 is 6 cm longer (2,5 in) but only 1,4 cm (0,5 in) wider than the E60,
but the car feels a lot wider both inside and outside.
I drive a lot on narrow downtown streets and parking lots etc and there's no visibility of the cars front corners.
Even with the help of the PDC, which often howls and shows red all the way, this is hard.
10-01-2010, 01:43 PM
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I just want to chime in and clarify that this only applies to me.
I ordered an F10 550, but when it got stuck at the port waiting for the gas tank level to be fixed , I had a chance to drive a similar one and found it to be extremely luxurious and elegant, smooth and quiet and very nice looking, but the driving experience left a lot to be desired. I felt that it was too isolated for my tastes. It may be very fast but I want to know what the front tires are doing, how the surface of the road is, when i take a fast curve to know when I will be reaching the limits. I could not get to the point that I felt comfortable with the F10.
So I went back to basics, and bought an E90 328 and so far I am having a blast driving a car that is always communicating with me, and not only that, but it is very smooth and quiet on the highway, plus the gas consumption is not bad.
So for the first time in 16 years I don?t have a BMW 5 series?.. and remember that this is only my opinion and we all have different tastes and needs, so if you love the E60 or F10, I?m happy for you, but as things are now, they are not for me?
I ordered an F10 550, but when it got stuck at the port waiting for the gas tank level to be fixed
, I had a chance to drive a similar one and found it to be extremely luxurious and elegant, smooth and quiet and very nice looking, but the driving experience left a lot to be desired. I felt that it was too isolated for my tastes. It may be very fast but I want to know what the front tires are doing, how the surface of the road is, when i take a fast curve to know when I will be reaching the limits. I could not get to the point that I felt comfortable with the F10.So I went back to basics, and bought an E90 328 and so far I am having a blast driving a car that is always communicating with me, and not only that, but it is very smooth and quiet on the highway, plus the gas consumption is not bad.
So for the first time in 16 years I don?t have a BMW 5 series?.. and remember that this is only my opinion and we all have different tastes and needs, so if you love the E60 or F10, I?m happy for you, but as things are now, they are not for me?
10-01-2010, 04:35 PM
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I had a chance to drive a similar one and found it to be extremely luxurious and elegant, smooth and quiet and very nice looking, but the driving experience left a lot to be desired. I felt that it was too isolated for my tastes. It may be very fast but I want to know what the front tires are doing, how the surface of the road is, when i take a fast curve to know when I will be reaching the limits. I could not get to the point that I felt comfortable with the F10.