Shebs

While browsing Car and Driver site I came across the 2009 535i group test so I wanted to share the old test with the forum members in comparison with the new test.

2009 Group Test Results






2010 Group Test Results



As you can see the Chassis and Powertrain results of the E60 were better.

Please note that the E60 was six speed manual while the F10 has 8 speed auto. The F10 is at disadvantage due to its Goodyear Excellence tires compared to the E60 Bridgestone Potenza RE050 tires.

bm323

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shebs

As you can see the Chassis and Powertrain results of the E60 were better.

Please note that the E60 was six speed manual while the F10 has 8 speed auto. The F10 is at disadvantage due to its Goodyear Excellence tires compared to the E60 Bridgestone Potenza RE050 tires.

Let me check this out later.

Are you referring to 2 different tests taken one year apart, not comparing the F10 and E60 in the same test, them not having the same tyres, and using their subjective 0 to 10 points to make your first line conclusion above??

Shebs

It seems to me that you haven't read the tables yet. If you read the subjective 0 to 10 points system than it is your own problem, I would never read or even comment on those ratings

My conclusion comes from the 7 different acceleration data measured, the 1/4 mile data (13.8 & 102 mph E60 to 14.0 & 100 mph F10), the skidpad figures (0.89 E60 to 0.86 F10), and the lane change (slalom) speeds (64.8 mph E60 to 61.7 mph F10). The E60 535i acceleration figures are better than those of the F10 except for the rolling start, which can be attributed to the E60 being a manual. The top gear elasticity times are also illegitimate due to the E60 manual gearbox not having a torque converter.

The braking distance of the F10 is better (as also indicated in Edmunds Inside Line tests) where the F10 stopped from 70 mph to zero in 163 ft compared to the E60 165 ft.

Please read the tables carefully

bm323

How are the tyres compared between the E60 and the F10 in http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz11ucf2pQ7

And how are the tyres compared to that in C & D? Motortrend's figures are more favourable.

bm323

Did you take into account Motortrend's? and the acceleration figures there and the tyres? How then do you arrive at chassis and powertrain?

BabkenBMW

I don't understand the meaning of comparing the new F10 to the E60 instead of comparing it to the competitors. And It's a real problem. I'll skip the 1st comparison test with the E60 participation and review the 2nd. All I can say is that they are not reviewers but simply blind and subjective. Now I just want to ask them the following question: if the new 5 Series is such "rubbish" as we can conclude from your test results, then why its sales results are increasing with a rapid momentum? This test is the only one which makes me laugh to death.
All I can say is that after reading about this test I excluded the C&D from my list of trustworthy automobile websites.

Regards to BMW fans

Shebs

And who said the F10 was rubbish?

A lot of members, including myself, have stated that the F10 is better in every aspect than the E60, except for handling due to the higher weight, and high speed wind noise. The difference in handling is minimal as you can see from the tables above.

But when comparing the handling of the E60 to that of the E39 in 2004, you will find that the E60 was a revolution when compared to the E39 in terms of measurable handling qualities.

Both tests results are above, and from those results as well as the results of other tests in other magazines and sites, BMW owners might be considering switching to Audi or Jaguar depending on their priorities. Every person priorities are different. For me, handling at the limit is a very important aspect of the car I own. I test drove the F10 and I found it to be inferior to the handling of the E60. A lot of members who owned both cars back to back found the same thing.

But again, as you stated, more than 90% of the buyers will not even notice the difference mentioned above, and so BMW will remain selling the new F10 depending on all its other good qualities.

Every individual priorities are different, and these priorities might change by time as well.

bm323

Good if you let us know your views of the Audi and Jaguar, if you do test drive them. Imo, the handling and about most aspects of the Jaguar XF 3 liter petrol is inferior to the F10. I haven't tested the A6.

Shebs

Again, and as you did in an ealier thread, you are referring to a straight line comparison done by Motortrend which does not show any tires effect, since tires effect is primary on handling. In acceleration, tires grip will matter on low speeds were tires traction would be overcomed by the engine's torque.

The case in Motortrend test is that the E60 is still faster to 60 mph, i.e. where tires matter. This agrees with Edmunds and C&D results. The reason why the F10 is faster above 60 mph in Motortrend remains a question not answered. But as we have now 2 tests (Edmunds and C&D) stating that the E60 is faster while one test (Motortrend) claims that the E60 is faster to 60 mph then the F10 is faster above that speed. So 2 tests against 1 should be enough to state that the E60 535i is faster in a straight line than the F10 535i.

The only two tests comparing both 535i in terms of handling are Edminds Inside Line and C&D. Both show the E60 superioty in terms on handling and both tests results agree on the same conclusion. This is also my own conclusion as I drove both cars. Show me a test that states that the F10 has better handling figures (skidpad, slalom, etc.) than an equivalent E60 if you want to prove the opposite.

And by the way, I do not understand the basis of your argument about acceleration comparison since the E60 535i manual is faster than the F10 535i manual and the autos up to 60 mph are almost the same as per BMW claims in their own brochures . Download the brochures here Brochures and see for yourself.

BabkenBMW

As I didn't test drive both, I can't say anything in terms of handling. All I can say is that according to BMW the E60 can't keep up with the F10 on the track. But even if the handling went down a bit, all the rest features progressed to a much higher level. For instance, safety. The F10 crash test results are simply phenomenal while those of the E60 were simply catastrophic. The same applies to looks, build quality, innovations, passenger space, comfort and luxury. So the new F10 is the ultimate sedan in its segment as always and one head above the E60.