Car and Driver Comparison
07-17-2010, 05:59 PM
#91
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My Ride: BMW E60 530i
It's been a while since I posted...
Someone else replied to my post about the new upcoming 6 Series as "it may well be like the F10".
Well, there are rumours that the Gran Coupe debuted in Beijing this year will be the most accurate look of the new upcoming 6 Series. On the basis that is the case, I'll be taking the new upcoming 6 Series any day over the F10.
Someone else replied to my post about the new upcoming 6 Series as "it may well be like the F10".
Well, there are rumours that the Gran Coupe debuted in Beijing this year will be the most accurate look of the new upcoming 6 Series. On the basis that is the case, I'll be taking the new upcoming 6 Series any day over the F10.
07-18-2010, 06:12 AM
#92
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My Ride: 2008 Porsche 911 Carrera S Convertible. Midnight Blue, 6 Speed.Retired - 2007 997 Carrera S, Midnight Blue, Grey leather, premium audioRetired - 2007 550i, Monaco Blue over Beige, Navigation, Logic 7, Cold Weather Pack, Comfort Access, Sport Package
Model Year: 2008
I just posted this in another thread that Rudy started but it's relevant here too. It's the report from the LA Times' Dan Neil who attended the press launch of the 535. It's interesting for two reasons - Neil is a truly top drawer writer, he also writes for the Wall Street Journal and his column is the first one I read every Saturday, and because his feedback makes essentially the same points as the article from C&D and also some members here.
LA Times article
LA Times article
07-24-2010, 12:37 PM
#93
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Perhaps, but it's the best - and with the right level of investment it is by far the fastest - car on your list by a massive margin. The Turbo gets 0-60 in a little over 3 seconds - I've seen 3.2 as the fastest and it will outhandle almost anything. Looks are polarizing (I quite like it, I can see why others may not) but it is a fantastic car. It's selling amazingly well despite the fact that you can barely get into even the base V8 models for much less than 100K.
07-27-2010, 07:00 AM
#94
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I finally had the chance to test drive a 535i the other day ... and while I understand some of C&D's (and Dan Neil's) reactions, I was impressed overall.
The styling is very handsome up-close, and if I had this car to wash and wax I think I would fall in love with all of its creases and curves - this is a very attractive car, but not stunning. And from across the parking lot I don't think the F10 will excite the eye the way the E60 does (in fact, the F10 is more likely to get lost among the Lexus's). And the F10 just looks so big compared to the E60.
The inside is stunning. BMW really has accelerated to the top of the segment with this interior. I think it strikes the perfect balance of luxury and sportiness, and with just enough driver-oriented controls and buttons ... but not overly spartan like the E60. Everything about the interior feels so familiar and perfectly suited to the task. One minor note ... I don't think BMW completely resolved the storage space issue - the F10 doesn't seem to have any more places to stash your stuff than the E60 did.
The 535i I tested had very few goodies with only the Cold Weather Package, shift paddles, and the Premium Package 2 as options - no Sport or Dynamic Handling packages. But even at this basic level of options the driving dynamics were excellent. I thought the ride was appropriately firm and solid (BMW at its best), and it was never flustered by anything Chicago roads are known to serve up. And in the twisties it really held on tight and level - it was remarkably easy to drive.
I have to say that in no way did the steering come across as 'numb', but there is something to the complaints about the overall handling that it just doesn't quite add up to the usual tactile BMW feel, even though the F10 does handle so effortlessly well. But in my case I sort of chalk this lack-of sensation to the fact that my synapses are tuned to driving a fast-twitch fiber M5 every day. So I sort of discount this complaint a bit and reserve judgment until spending more time in an F10.
Finally, there is that engine.
Wow is that a great bit of work. It sounds fantastic, goes fast and hard, and in the end is probably all you will ever need in a 5 series.
So, yes, overall I was very impressed with the F10. But I wasn't wowed - I don't think the F10 has the same "gotta have it" vibe that the E60 did. Plus, it's going to take some time to get used to the size issue: the 5er is the new 7.
The styling is very handsome up-close, and if I had this car to wash and wax I think I would fall in love with all of its creases and curves - this is a very attractive car, but not stunning. And from across the parking lot I don't think the F10 will excite the eye the way the E60 does (in fact, the F10 is more likely to get lost among the Lexus's). And the F10 just looks so big compared to the E60.
The inside is stunning. BMW really has accelerated to the top of the segment with this interior. I think it strikes the perfect balance of luxury and sportiness, and with just enough driver-oriented controls and buttons ... but not overly spartan like the E60. Everything about the interior feels so familiar and perfectly suited to the task. One minor note ... I don't think BMW completely resolved the storage space issue - the F10 doesn't seem to have any more places to stash your stuff than the E60 did.
The 535i I tested had very few goodies with only the Cold Weather Package, shift paddles, and the Premium Package 2 as options - no Sport or Dynamic Handling packages. But even at this basic level of options the driving dynamics were excellent. I thought the ride was appropriately firm and solid (BMW at its best), and it was never flustered by anything Chicago roads are known to serve up. And in the twisties it really held on tight and level - it was remarkably easy to drive.
I have to say that in no way did the steering come across as 'numb', but there is something to the complaints about the overall handling that it just doesn't quite add up to the usual tactile BMW feel, even though the F10 does handle so effortlessly well. But in my case I sort of chalk this lack-of sensation to the fact that my synapses are tuned to driving a fast-twitch fiber M5 every day. So I sort of discount this complaint a bit and reserve judgment until spending more time in an F10.
Finally, there is that engine.
Wow is that a great bit of work. It sounds fantastic, goes fast and hard, and in the end is probably all you will ever need in a 5 series.So, yes, overall I was very impressed with the F10. But I wasn't wowed - I don't think the F10 has the same "gotta have it" vibe that the E60 did. Plus, it's going to take some time to get used to the size issue: the 5er is the new 7.
07-27-2010, 10:14 AM
#95
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My Ride: 2011 BMW 328xi Sports Wagon w/ premium, sound, nav, ipod, manual trans
Not to belabor the point because it seems half my posts here are whining about it, but BMW's decision to cancel manual transmission on the AWD trims reinforces the fears that some of us have that they're abandoning the base.
Audi, for all its gains, hasn't offered manuals in most trims in the US either.
Basically, if you are a real driving enthusiast and want manuals, you're pretty much being shown the door.
First the 7 in Europe, then the X5, now the AWD 5ers.
Audi, for all its gains, hasn't offered manuals in most trims in the US either.
Basically, if you are a real driving enthusiast and want manuals, you're pretty much being shown the door.
First the 7 in Europe, then the X5, now the AWD 5ers.
07-27-2010, 01:25 PM
#96
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Not to belabor the point because it seems half my posts here are whining about it, but BMW's decision to cancel manual transmission on the AWD trims reinforces the fears that some of us have that they're abandoning the base.
Audi, for all its gains, hasn't offered manuals in most trims in the US either.
Basically, if you are a real driving enthusiast and want manuals, you're pretty much being shown the door.
First the 7 in Europe, then the X5, now the AWD 5ers.
Audi, for all its gains, hasn't offered manuals in most trims in the US either.
Basically, if you are a real driving enthusiast and want manuals, you're pretty much being shown the door.
First the 7 in Europe, then the X5, now the AWD 5ers.
07-27-2010, 04:35 PM
#99
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My Ride: 2011 BMW 328xi Sports Wagon w/ premium, sound, nav, ipod, manual trans
Wow. It's horrible.
I really was looking forward to the new F10. I wanted a 535i xDrive. Stick, of course. Couldn't wait. Been driving BMWs for 14 years and all 5 cars have been sticks. I don't know what to do now. This last 3-series I got because the X5 went auto-only. It is a fine car but it wasn't what I really wanted. The small size is annoying... I'd decided about a year and a half ago that when this lease was up I was going to get a 5-series wagon. Now they're gone. Then the F10 was announced and it seemed like it was going to be great (I was not at all a fan of the e60 - ugly!) and now no stick in the AWD trim. BMW seems to be progressively chopping away what I want. While what forceten wants is immaterial to BMW, I'm sure I'm part of a passionate segment of drivers who look for a car that takes driving's pleasure seriously and allows for a direct connection to the car and the road. Nothing for me is worse than driving a car that provides an abstraction layer between driver and car and car and road. It leads to boredom and inattention. And certainly a car like that, no matter how many bells and whistles, isn't worth big money. The joy is akin to that from a Hyundai.
I really was looking forward to the new F10. I wanted a 535i xDrive. Stick, of course. Couldn't wait. Been driving BMWs for 14 years and all 5 cars have been sticks. I don't know what to do now. This last 3-series I got because the X5 went auto-only. It is a fine car but it wasn't what I really wanted. The small size is annoying... I'd decided about a year and a half ago that when this lease was up I was going to get a 5-series wagon. Now they're gone. Then the F10 was announced and it seemed like it was going to be great (I was not at all a fan of the e60 - ugly!) and now no stick in the AWD trim. BMW seems to be progressively chopping away what I want. While what forceten wants is immaterial to BMW, I'm sure I'm part of a passionate segment of drivers who look for a car that takes driving's pleasure seriously and allows for a direct connection to the car and the road. Nothing for me is worse than driving a car that provides an abstraction layer between driver and car and car and road. It leads to boredom and inattention. And certainly a car like that, no matter how many bells and whistles, isn't worth big money. The joy is akin to that from a Hyundai.
07-28-2010, 04:30 AM
#100
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My Ride: 11 550i Sophisto Gray/Oyster Black/Anthracite, Sprt Trns, DHP, IAS, SP, PP1, PP2, CWP, HUD, DAP, AVSP, SF RS, CA, ACC - Euro Del
Ahh, the good ole days at Roadfly!!! That sad forum was the genesis of our current forum... I do remember the hate that many E39 owners had for the E60, it was remarkable. I will say that I think this debate (for the most part!) is different. Back then the E60 was a radical step forward in design while the F10 is not that at all. The exterior is less controversial while most of us seem to have issues with the weight gain and the driving feel of the car. I do agree that the exterior is unexciting but that is a matter of personal taste. Who knows, after some time with the M3 I am ordering to replace my 2008 550, perhaps I'll be ready for something more luxurious. That is the direction the F10 is headed. While the E60 is a sport luxury sedan, the F10 is definitely a luxury sport sedan. Nothing wrong with that, just not the direction I'm looking for right now...