tadtaggert

I hear what your saying, but this just doesn't ring true on a number of points:

1: The 156 (and the 155 before it) were designed and intended to be 'executive cars'. The move to the 159 was in no way a switch in the intentions, let alone a move from sport to luxury. Hell, the cars were made at a fiat plant and the engines available weren't exactly in the sport ranges (with the exception of the V6), tho there were sport packages available.

2: As I and others have said before, the F10 is larger than early 7's, the current 3's are bigger than early 5's, and we have the 1's now: nothing has been taken away other than what you may be looking for has a different number these days.

EDIT:

I hope you drive E's and A/S6's, history does change. One of the first performance driving schools I went to used 911's to illustrate bad handling, this being in the first Targa days before the wheelbase change and numerous other fixes. I don't think anyone calls a 911 a deathtrap on a track these days.

Shebs

In 1998, the Alfa 156 offered the strongest I4 1.6, 1.8, 2.0 engines in the executive class (120, 144, 155 hp - 0-100 figures of 10.5 s, 9.4 s, and 8.6 s). This was at the time were the BMW 318i had the 1.9l with 118hp and 0-100 in 10.8s and the 320i came later with 2.0l 143 hp and 0-100 of 9.1.

Then after the 2.0 was switched from 2.0 TS to JTS, the power increased to 165 hp and the 0-100 improved to 8.2 s.

The 156 V6 2.5 was faster than the 325i and Audi A4 2.4 V6 when it was first introduced, and remained so till its demise.

Came the new 159 with 2.2 JTS to replace the 2.0 JTS 156 with 185 hp. 0-100 was worened to 8.7 and the 159 scored a worse lap time on every single circuit where it was tested.

Cornering G forces, slalom times, and lap times for the 159 were worse than the 156 although the car was better in every other aspect. This was mainly due to increase in weight from 1245 kg for the 156 2.0 TS to 1458 kg for the 159 2.2 JTS. Therefore, Alfa lost their loyal customers.

Fiat is one of the world's greates car manufacturers, and remember they still own Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, and Lancia.

My dad owns a new E-Class W212 E300 (not available in the US). I drove the car a couple of times and I can tell you it is a very good car in terms of handling, agility, and steering feel while still keeping the luxurious and comfortable ride.

The new E63 AMG has already crusehd the lap times of the BMW M5. Let's hope that the new M5 can do something about that.

I also agree with you rearding the new 3 being able to replace the E60, but I am now married with a child. I am afraid that however big the new 3 will be, it might not be able to satisfy my space needs.

In the meantime I will search for any lap times, slalom, and skidpad figures comparing the E-Class and the F10.

acorradi87

Completely agree here. I was 22 last year when I got my e60 550 and I think the looks are age-appropriate. The new 5 just looks too 'old' and the lack of road-connectedness furthers that opinion.

Truth be told, I will probably get over the looks of it, I happen to like the M-Sport appearance stuff however it's irritating that the M-Sport pack does nothing suspension-related... BMW sure is changing in that regard. The LCI will probably smooth out things about it that I don't like now. The e60 LCI certainly did.

At 23 years old I'm kind of scratching my head too...

ThunderbuttNLeadfoot

I'm scratching my head also and I'm middle aged.

Petes550i

I think people just get too hung up over looks. I think it's ridiculous to differentiate nowdays between a "younger-person's" car or an "older person's" car or a "man's" car or a "woman's" car. I personally know several guys in their mid 20's driving around in a S-Class and a 7 series and one of uncles, who is 65, owns a Lexus IF.

That being said, I don't see the F10 as being "old-looking" at all....it's design is based on the E34 and E39....the classic BMW design which some people seem to have forgotten after Bangle came in and turned everything upside-down.

But to each his own...

luigi524td

This really makes me laugh - but that's OK because every now and then a laugh helps!

It reminds me of the teenage girl walking across the street with her Mother ... Stopped at the intersection was a man with salt and pepper hair [if you have to ask what that is - you're too young to read the rest!] at the wheel of a relatively new Porsche.

The teenager turned to her Mother and commented, "Why do old men drive all the nice cars?" ... to which her mother replied, "Because they're the ones who can afford them!"



That said, remember, with luck you may grow old ... but, you can be immature forever

ThunderbuttNLeadfoot

Gene

aside from actual performance, exterior aesthetics is what draws us towards a car/model....no?

I mean...looks is what first catches our attention....so who can you can not to put so much value in looks

Petes550i

True, but if looks are all that is important and what defines a car, then how do you explain the Toyota Camry, a car that's universally perceived as being bland and boring year-after-year, being the all-time best selling passenger car?

Gene

apples to oranges, but for the sake of argument (and because you need more reasons to post...)

function and affordability.....

brand loyalty to toyota and the camry...

I'm willing to wager there is a bigger population of individuals that can afford a camry but not a 5 series..

those shopping for a bmw and 5 series are a different demographic of a camry....we don't want a camry, we want a luxurious sports sedan and are willing to pay for it (when you think, say or hear camry, does luxury or sprots sedan come to mind? when you think of a BMW 5 series, what words come to mind?)....not knocking the camry, I have a few family members and friends with them, great cars...just not for me, as I have an issue with spending my money on frivolous things like performance, handling, technological gadgetry, that BMW logo


but even with people like me, we want to feel like we are getting the most bang for out buck (in terms of car and function), just like camry owners...

okay, your turn pete.....