Unintentional trackday in a 535d
The labrador-lugger looks like its right at home on the track 
03-20-2006, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by needforspeed' post='257599' date='Mar 20 2006, 12:46 PM
Very nice - makes me want to have a go myself. Far more civilised than that caterham / westfield contraption behind.
In the Caterham there is no:
- Windscreen
- Climate Control
- Heated Seats
03-20-2006, 10:38 AM
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My Ride: E61 535d sport, Silver Grey/grey/maple.
20" Hartge Nova 7. Previously 19" staggered 172s
Gives you a feeling of smug satisfaction
Reminds me of the days of 'proper' touring cars and the 850 Volvo estates.
They just do them anyway! 
Reminds me of the days of 'proper' touring cars and the 850 Volvo estates.
Originally Posted by endeavour_uk' post='257611' date='Mar 20 2006, 01:23 PM
On the other hand the Caterham driver is also unlikely to be informed to "Make a legal U turn" whilst on the track
03-21-2006, 12:48 PM
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My Ride: BMW 525d Touring; Black-Sapphire; Black Dakota Leather;
Steptronic; Navigation System Business; Roofbars; Power Glass moonroof; Power seats with Driver memory, Heated front seats; PDC-Park Distance Control; Xenon Headlights with Adaptive Light Control; Radio Professional with 6 Disc CD-Charger in Glovebox;
Great pictures. Thanks for sharing them with us.
One short question, I was expecting less body-roll despite being a Touring, specially in a car with M-SPort package.
Was it really justifiable the roll seen in the first picture or effectively, and despite this package, the car still has a lot of "confort"/body-roll adjustment?
One short question, I was expecting less body-roll despite being a Touring, specially in a car with M-SPort package.
Was it really justifiable the roll seen in the first picture or effectively, and despite this package, the car still has a lot of "confort"/body-roll adjustment?
03-22-2006, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by albmag' post='258165' date='Mar 21 2006, 09:48 PM
One short question, I was expecting less body-roll despite being a Touring, specially in a car with M-SPort package.
Was it really justifiable the roll seen in the first picture or effectively, and despite this package, the car still has a lot of "confort"/body-roll adjustment?
Was it really justifiable the roll seen in the first picture or effectively, and despite this package, the car still has a lot of "confort"/body-roll adjustment?
You come down the pit straight and get out to the left just after the blend line. At the braking point I saw up to 95 on the HUD, pretty close to my M3 speed. Quick brake and then right into School. School has a double apex so you have to stay wide. If you get it right you keep a constant radius round this bend. I was never brave enough to be looking at anything but the road at this point but you are still doing 70+. A top spec Caterham on slicks can do 100mph here. There is a lot of G here and it seems to last forever - it is a highly regarded corner. School opens into a short straight which you are only actually going straight on for the last 10 yards. Just enough time to dab the brakes before you turn aggressively into the apex of Abbotts. This is the point the photos were being taken. Abbotts is a 90 degree right hander that goes steeply up hill and feels off camber. Too much speed and you will understeer onto the plastic grid/grass/tyre wall depending how wrong you got it! You can take the Tiff Needell approach and get the tail out, but I have seen many cars get this wrong and spin into the infield. Too slow and the car labours up the steep hill like its lost 100hp. The combinations of forces here is substantial and most cars will roll - even race cars. If the car was too stiff, the apex curbing would probably pitch you into the scenery if you were too aggressive. After that is Radar which is a open left, tight right combination in quick succession with the right hander being blind and >90 degrees for good measure. If you get your approach speed right (and are brave) you don't brake here and have to throw the car at the RH apex at the top hill at what seems insanely early. This is a full weight transfer from side to side on the car and the Touring feels BIG here. Is there roll...oh yes...however, the impressive thing is that the damping is spot on so the car settles quickly, there is no feeling that you are going to get pitched into roll oversteer. As a road track compromise it is pretty good. If you were modifying for the track you would try for lower and lighter first probably. I know SG535d is sourcing some stiffer ARBs. I will be interested to know how much difference they make.
Anyone know whether the M5 or Alpina use stiffer ARB's than an M Sport does?
03-22-2006, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by albmag' post='258165' date='Mar 21 2006, 09:48 PM
Great pictures. Thanks for sharing them with us.
One short question, I was expecting less body-roll despite being a Touring, specially in a car with M-SPort package.
Was it really justifiable the roll seen in the first picture or effectively, and despite this package, the car still has a lot of "confort"/body-roll adjustment?
One short question, I was expecting less body-roll despite being a Touring, specially in a car with M-SPort package.
Was it really justifiable the roll seen in the first picture or effectively, and despite this package, the car still has a lot of "confort"/body-roll adjustment?
03-22-2006, 03:35 AM
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My Ride: E61 535d sport, Silver Grey/grey/maple.
20" Hartge Nova 7. Previously 19" staggered 172s
Originally Posted by needforspeed' post='258374' date='Mar 22 2006, 12:28 PM
...set up for a comfy ride.
03-22-2006, 01:01 PM
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My Ride: BMW 525d Touring; Black-Sapphire; Black Dakota Leather;
Steptronic; Navigation System Business; Roofbars; Power Glass moonroof; Power seats with Driver memory, Heated front seats; PDC-Park Distance Control; Xenon Headlights with Adaptive Light Control; Radio Professional with 6 Disc CD-Charger in Glovebox;
Originally Posted by endeavour_uk' post='258362' date='Mar 22 2006, 11:56 AM
I think it's just a matter of physics. A Touring is over 1800kg and its going through a complex of corners at that point. The track is the one Fifth Gear use to do their shootouts. I don't know whether you have seen them in Germany although you can download clips from their Website.
You come down the pit straight and get out to the left just after the blend line. At the braking point I saw up to 95 on the HUD, pretty close to my M3 speed. Quick brake and then right into School. School has a double apex so you have to stay wide. If you get it right you keep a constant radius round this bend. I was never brave enough to be looking at anything but the road at this point but you are still doing 70+. A top spec Caterham on slicks can do 100mph here. There is a lot of G here and it seems to last forever - it is a highly regarded corner. School opens into a short straight which you are only actually going straight on for the last 10 yards. Just enough time to dab the brakes before you turn aggressively into the apex of Abbotts. This is the point the photos were being taken. Abbotts is a 90 degree right hander that goes steeply up hill and feels off camber. Too much speed and you will understeer onto the plastic grid/grass/tyre wall depending how wrong you got it! You can take the Tiff Needell approach and get the tail out, but I have seen many cars get this wrong and spin into the infield. Too slow and the car labours up the steep hill like its lost 100hp. The combinations of forces here is substantial and most cars will roll - even race cars. If the car was too stiff, the apex curbing would probably pitch you into the scenery if you were too aggressive. After that is Radar which is a open left, tight right combination in quick succession with the right hander being blind and >90 degrees for good measure. If you get your approach speed right (and are brave) you don't brake here and have to throw the car at the RH apex at the top hill at what seems insanely early. This is a full weight transfer from side to side on the car and the Touring feels BIG here. Is there roll...oh yes...however, the impressive thing is that the damping is spot on so the car settles quickly, there is no feeling that you are going to get pitched into roll oversteer. As a road track compromise it is pretty good. If you were modifying for the track you would try for lower and lighter first probably. I know SG535d is sourcing some stiffer ARBs. I will be interested to know how much difference they make.
Anyone know whether the M5 or Alpina use stiffer ARB's than an M Sport does?
You come down the pit straight and get out to the left just after the blend line. At the braking point I saw up to 95 on the HUD, pretty close to my M3 speed. Quick brake and then right into School. School has a double apex so you have to stay wide. If you get it right you keep a constant radius round this bend. I was never brave enough to be looking at anything but the road at this point but you are still doing 70+. A top spec Caterham on slicks can do 100mph here. There is a lot of G here and it seems to last forever - it is a highly regarded corner. School opens into a short straight which you are only actually going straight on for the last 10 yards. Just enough time to dab the brakes before you turn aggressively into the apex of Abbotts. This is the point the photos were being taken. Abbotts is a 90 degree right hander that goes steeply up hill and feels off camber. Too much speed and you will understeer onto the plastic grid/grass/tyre wall depending how wrong you got it! You can take the Tiff Needell approach and get the tail out, but I have seen many cars get this wrong and spin into the infield. Too slow and the car labours up the steep hill like its lost 100hp. The combinations of forces here is substantial and most cars will roll - even race cars. If the car was too stiff, the apex curbing would probably pitch you into the scenery if you were too aggressive. After that is Radar which is a open left, tight right combination in quick succession with the right hander being blind and >90 degrees for good measure. If you get your approach speed right (and are brave) you don't brake here and have to throw the car at the RH apex at the top hill at what seems insanely early. This is a full weight transfer from side to side on the car and the Touring feels BIG here. Is there roll...oh yes...however, the impressive thing is that the damping is spot on so the car settles quickly, there is no feeling that you are going to get pitched into roll oversteer. As a road track compromise it is pretty good. If you were modifying for the track you would try for lower and lighter first probably. I know SG535d is sourcing some stiffer ARBs. I will be interested to know how much difference they make.
Anyone know whether the M5 or Alpina use stiffer ARB's than an M Sport does?
Of course the first thing I've made, was to search the web for a drawing of the circuit to really try to "see" a little bit further.
Regarding the suspension settings, clearly for someone who has a specific car for track days, this settng is more than enough...
03-22-2006, 01:20 PM
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My Ride: E61 535d sport, Silver Grey/grey/maple.
20" Hartge Nova 7. Previously 19" staggered 172s
NfS, everything is a matter of opinion of course, but while there are many that will like it (me included), I would not dream of describing any M Sport suspension set-up as a 'comfy ride'. 