Top Gear - E61
08-02-2004, 02:56 AM
#1
Senior Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Slightly off topic but did anyone in the UK see Top Gear last night? Clarkson gave the X3 a really bad review and actually said buy a 5 Touring instead. That is really saying something for him because he has already said on several shows that he hates the new 5, basically due to the styling.
The X3 was panned for its exterior styling, poor quality interior and abysmal off road handling. He also slated it's ride quality. I've never driven an X3 personally but used to own an X5 and have to agree with him that the X5 is light years ahead in terms of quality of materials used in it's construction. I have sat in an X3 at the dealer and felt that the interior was poor. BMW apparently told Top Gear that all the materials used in the X3 are recyclable but Clarkson felt they already had been! I seem to recall at the launch of the E46 3 series that the same claim was made yet the quality of finish in that car is significantly better than the latest models.
I fail to see why BMW are playing fast and loose with their reputation by downgrading the perception of quality in such a cavalier fashion. Mercedes did this a few years ago and have been trying to improve the quality back to where it was ever since. It seems that Audi are the leaders in this area now.
Of all the complaints levelled at the newly launched models I believe that disatisfaction with the actually quality of the materials used in the interiors (as opposed to the actual styling) is spot on. I can't say that I am overly impressed with the interior of my 5 compared to previous BMW's I've owned. I cannot believe that changing surface textures of the materials used would add huge cost to each vehicle.
The X3 was panned for its exterior styling, poor quality interior and abysmal off road handling. He also slated it's ride quality. I've never driven an X3 personally but used to own an X5 and have to agree with him that the X5 is light years ahead in terms of quality of materials used in it's construction. I have sat in an X3 at the dealer and felt that the interior was poor. BMW apparently told Top Gear that all the materials used in the X3 are recyclable but Clarkson felt they already had been! I seem to recall at the launch of the E46 3 series that the same claim was made yet the quality of finish in that car is significantly better than the latest models.
I fail to see why BMW are playing fast and loose with their reputation by downgrading the perception of quality in such a cavalier fashion. Mercedes did this a few years ago and have been trying to improve the quality back to where it was ever since. It seems that Audi are the leaders in this area now.
Of all the complaints levelled at the newly launched models I believe that disatisfaction with the actually quality of the materials used in the interiors (as opposed to the actual styling) is spot on. I can't say that I am overly impressed with the interior of my 5 compared to previous BMW's I've owned. I cannot believe that changing surface textures of the materials used would add huge cost to each vehicle.
08-02-2004, 03:15 AM
#2
Contributors
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,374
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: [i][b][u]Since 19 august 2004[/u][/b][/i]: [color=red][b]530i[/b] High Executive[/color], Silvergray with beige interior, Popular wood, Servotronic, Sportssuspension, electric foldable and dimmed mirrors, dimmed interior mirror, pappelmaser braun wood, cupholders, styling 123 18" wheels, Logic 7, Steptronic, alarm class 3, electric sunscreen in the rear and suncreens for sidewindows, Comfort seats, heated seats, Xenon with headlightwashers, Adaptive corner lights ALC, Advanced airconditioning, lightpackage, Nav Pro, 6 cd changer, side airbags rearseats, bluetooth siemens S55, chrome kidneys, gearlever with wood, voice recognition retrofit, front windshield with green band.
Waiting for trunkopener button from Hobi :)
I cannot agree more with you. The interior finish in my E46 was actually nicer than in my new E60 and that while it was a cheaper car.
08-02-2004, 03:17 AM
#3
Members
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Belgium
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Taped it, I'll watch it tonight...
Apparently, I'm one of those few which don't think that the interior quality of the E60/61 is that bad. Comming from a E46, I don't see any spots which I could say something bad about. Having said that, I only test drove twice the E61 for short periods...
The important thing for me is that the car doesn't ratlle in any way or form. No unwanted noises welcome. If that requires more or less plastic, so be it...
On another topic, did anyone of you guys had any experiences with Volvo? Because, since I'm still on my hesitanting mood, I'm divided between a Volvo V70 2.4 D (tunned to 190bhp) and a 525D Touring. Before starting bashing Volvo, please take in account that, in my current configuration, there's a 11.000 Eur price difference between the 2. My question is : is it worth it? Configuration is pretty basic: leather, metal paint, PDC...
Apparently, I'm one of those few which don't think that the interior quality of the E60/61 is that bad. Comming from a E46, I don't see any spots which I could say something bad about. Having said that, I only test drove twice the E61 for short periods...
The important thing for me is that the car doesn't ratlle in any way or form. No unwanted noises welcome. If that requires more or less plastic, so be it...
On another topic, did anyone of you guys had any experiences with Volvo? Because, since I'm still on my hesitanting mood, I'm divided between a Volvo V70 2.4 D (tunned to 190bhp) and a 525D Touring. Before starting bashing Volvo, please take in account that, in my current configuration, there's a 11.000 Eur price difference between the 2. My question is : is it worth it? Configuration is pretty basic: leather, metal paint, PDC...
08-02-2004, 03:34 AM
#4
Senior Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dragonii,
It's the surface textures of the materials. I had mosaico leather in my 323Ci and it felt extremely supple and had a very high quality finish to it. Can't remember the name of the leather in my X5 but it had a good finish as well. The dakota leather in my E60 looks and feels rough and cheap in comparison.
The same is true for the texture of the surface of the plastics used on the dash and door casings. In the 3 series and X5 they had a nice matt grained finish effect which made them look expensive. In the E60 they have a harder, more shiny appearance which makes them look cheap. The panel gaps in the E60's interior are also wider and the number of different colours and textures on the "black" dash in bright sunlight is ridiculous. Some parts of the plastic take on a purple tint whilst others look more grey. The finish on the cupholders does not match the the rest of the dash surface. I suspect all of these components are made by different suppliers hence the lack of uniformity of surface finish and colours.
I would gladly have paid the ?200 or so that would have been the cost of better material finishes in the interior as I think this is one area that lets the car down. I haven't seen an E60 with the BMW Individual interior but suspect it looks the way the mainstream car should. I wish BMW offered the extended leather packages available in the Z4 and 6 series where some dash/door panel surfaces are covered in leather.
It's the surface textures of the materials. I had mosaico leather in my 323Ci and it felt extremely supple and had a very high quality finish to it. Can't remember the name of the leather in my X5 but it had a good finish as well. The dakota leather in my E60 looks and feels rough and cheap in comparison.
The same is true for the texture of the surface of the plastics used on the dash and door casings. In the 3 series and X5 they had a nice matt grained finish effect which made them look expensive. In the E60 they have a harder, more shiny appearance which makes them look cheap. The panel gaps in the E60's interior are also wider and the number of different colours and textures on the "black" dash in bright sunlight is ridiculous. Some parts of the plastic take on a purple tint whilst others look more grey. The finish on the cupholders does not match the the rest of the dash surface. I suspect all of these components are made by different suppliers hence the lack of uniformity of surface finish and colours.
I would gladly have paid the ?200 or so that would have been the cost of better material finishes in the interior as I think this is one area that lets the car down. I haven't seen an E60 with the BMW Individual interior but suspect it looks the way the mainstream car should. I wish BMW offered the extended leather packages available in the Z4 and 6 series where some dash/door panel surfaces are covered in leather.
08-02-2004, 03:44 AM
#5
Contributors
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,374
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: [i][b][u]Since 19 august 2004[/u][/b][/i]: [color=red][b]530i[/b] High Executive[/color], Silvergray with beige interior, Popular wood, Servotronic, Sportssuspension, electric foldable and dimmed mirrors, dimmed interior mirror, pappelmaser braun wood, cupholders, styling 123 18" wheels, Logic 7, Steptronic, alarm class 3, electric sunscreen in the rear and suncreens for sidewindows, Comfort seats, heated seats, Xenon with headlightwashers, Adaptive corner lights ALC, Advanced airconditioning, lightpackage, Nav Pro, 6 cd changer, side airbags rearseats, bluetooth siemens S55, chrome kidneys, gearlever with wood, voice recognition retrofit, front windshield with green band.
Waiting for trunkopener button from Hobi :)
I find the rattle thing very important too. But better interior materials will not give more rattles. I also would have gladly paid 700 euros more for the car if the materials were better looking.
Concerning the Volvo. I think it is a nice car but the model is a few years old already. Volvo and BMW are not in the same league so hard to compare. I can tell you the BMW engine (6 cilinder) is much better than the Volvo engine (5 cilinder).
Money is always an important factor but you have to drive the car for several years. If I were you I would never want to think: I wish I had taken the BMW.
Concerning the Volvo. I think it is a nice car but the model is a few years old already. Volvo and BMW are not in the same league so hard to compare. I can tell you the BMW engine (6 cilinder) is much better than the Volvo engine (5 cilinder).
Money is always an important factor but you have to drive the car for several years. If I were you I would never want to think: I wish I had taken the BMW.
08-02-2004, 03:49 AM
#6
Contributors
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Herts, UK
Posts: 2,013
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The suspension on the X3 sport is a joke. We made the dealer get an SE version with softer suspension settings from another dealer. The ride on that was much better.The one Clarkson had on last night was a sport version.
As for it's off-road capabilities; no SUV nowadays is being driven off-road. I bought one for my wife, she doesn't even like to walk on grass, let alone go off-roading. I got her an SUV because she was tired of estate cars. I think it makes a nice family car; lots of space in the back (more than in my 5-series), plastic unpainted bumpers to suit my wife's (and other supermarket customers') parking skills, easy to clean interior and big enough to protect the family in case of accidents. Oh, and the best thing; the storage pockets have been replaced by nets, so if the kid leaves a sandwich in it, we will see it before we smell it...
As for it's off-road capabilities; no SUV nowadays is being driven off-road. I bought one for my wife, she doesn't even like to walk on grass, let alone go off-roading. I got her an SUV because she was tired of estate cars. I think it makes a nice family car; lots of space in the back (more than in my 5-series), plastic unpainted bumpers to suit my wife's (and other supermarket customers') parking skills, easy to clean interior and big enough to protect the family in case of accidents. Oh, and the best thing; the storage pockets have been replaced by nets, so if the kid leaves a sandwich in it, we will see it before we smell it...
08-02-2004, 03:54 AM
#7
Members
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Belgium
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
530E60NL,
I couldn't agree with you more !!! The key element is that wonderfull 6 cylinder...
Also, the age model thing is something that bothers me a little. However, the thing I would hate the most would be the regret of NOT having the BMW...
I'll try to hassle the BMW vendor for an extra discount (also probably taking the demo car that they use for road tests...extra euros off)
I couldn't agree with you more !!! The key element is that wonderfull 6 cylinder...
Also, the age model thing is something that bothers me a little. However, the thing I would hate the most would be the regret of NOT having the BMW...
I'll try to hassle the BMW vendor for an extra discount (also probably taking the demo car that they use for road tests...extra euros off)
08-02-2004, 04:04 AM
#8
Contributors
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,374
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: [i][b][u]Since 19 august 2004[/u][/b][/i]: [color=red][b]530i[/b] High Executive[/color], Silvergray with beige interior, Popular wood, Servotronic, Sportssuspension, electric foldable and dimmed mirrors, dimmed interior mirror, pappelmaser braun wood, cupholders, styling 123 18" wheels, Logic 7, Steptronic, alarm class 3, electric sunscreen in the rear and suncreens for sidewindows, Comfort seats, heated seats, Xenon with headlightwashers, Adaptive corner lights ALC, Advanced airconditioning, lightpackage, Nav Pro, 6 cd changer, side airbags rearseats, bluetooth siemens S55, chrome kidneys, gearlever with wood, voice recognition retrofit, front windshield with green band.
Waiting for trunkopener button from Hobi :)
I think you will be much more happy with it! Resale value on your BMW will be better then on the Volvo too (at least in the netherlands it is).
08-02-2004, 04:43 AM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
I saw the show last night. Normally, I don't put too much in to what TG thinks, however, the issues with the X3 were pretty consistent with other reviews.
I do think they were unfair to try and do too much off-roading because that doesn't seem to be it's purpose and I've never seen BMW try and market that
ability.
Guess my eye is not trained enough to notice the poor quality interio in the E60 and X3 for that matter. I actually think they both look pretty good. Maybe not quite as good as the current Audi/VW's, but on par with Mercedes.
I do think they were unfair to try and do too much off-roading because that doesn't seem to be it's purpose and I've never seen BMW try and market that
ability.
Guess my eye is not trained enough to notice the poor quality interio in the E60 and X3 for that matter. I actually think they both look pretty good. Maybe not quite as good as the current Audi/VW's, but on par with Mercedes.
08-02-2004, 05:44 AM
#10
Super Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 17,310
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
My Ride: G30 M550i
Model Year: 2018
Where's Doctor Diesel when you need him?
I think he's really happy with his X3 purchase. I'm sure he'll chime in sooner or later (maybe he's on holiday?)
I think he's really happy with his X3 purchase. I'm sure he'll chime in sooner or later (maybe he's on holiday?)