norsecarnut

Ha! I was wondering if you might pick up on that. Well, I'm both. My first "real" vehicle was the 1996 Discovery, that has actually never failed or needed help home until a few months ago at 226,000 miles or so. That was a suspicious occurrence of a very, very, rare failure too just after being poked around in by a private shop I wasn't familiar with. Anyway, it was 100% reliable up until then. I bought it used in 2001 with about 38k miles and put about 30k/yr on until slowing that down around 210k.

In 2006 I bought what I consider, still to this day, one of the last good Land Rover, a 2004 Discovery II fairly loaded and then modified lightly for extended camping, light trail duty. It's at 78k now, had 24ish then.

I've been through a FEW other vehicles since then though....some no regrets, others, yeah, were silly. However, this is a big part of the desire for "the last suv" sort of approach. I was better off in many ways when I just simply drove the 96 Disco, spent $ on preventative maintenance, and thought very little, if ever, about cars in general!!! While the G is expensive...to say the least, it would be nice to just move on from forum reading, car modifying, selling, swapping, warranties, mpg concerns, etc, etc.

So, I may have you beat on the cars per time, maybe identical actually:
13 since 2001, not including the one I "bought" but declined the following day! 5 of which are still in the family.

An interesting statistic: We have driven 435,000 miles over the past 10 years. on the ratio of low mpg vehicles (14-17) against high-er (20-28), that yields roughly 26,000 gallons. Given that premium was closer to $2/g for some of the early 2000's but also the time when the most miles were 14mpg, I estimate about $76,000 in gas in 10 yrs using an overall average of 17.3 mpg.

Maybe this will drive the next decision...

norsecarnut

Ok, I measured.

I'm currently using the 68" bar ! However, the minimum bar length that would allow an "outside the rail mount/foot" mounted bike tray (such as my Yakima Sprocket Rockets) is 53"ish. Therefor the standard Thule 58" is perfect.

The car rails center to center are wider in the front by about an inch+ So, just by chance I had my bike trays mounted in reverse so that the front of a bike would not be plastered with bugs and it seems there could be a slight aerodynamic advantage of the tire breaking the wind around the rest of the bike

The reason the direction could be important is that on my Yakima trays, the head is the widest part that decides the minimum bar width. With this wider part at the rear of the car, it tucks the tray closer inboard because the rear of the tray just uses a 1" wide clamp that can snug up closer to the bar/rail foot.

Make sense?

And yes, the cargo box can mount all the way out past the foot without any issues. However I would say it's best to then size the bar, or shift it out as needed, to allow the cargo box to rest it's weight entirely on the bars. This would probably require the next longer bar over the 54" or custom cutting the length down.

Keep in mind, mounting the bike outside the foot is less secure from theft as the mount could be slid off the end stealing both bike AND tray! This is the case on my Yakima but I have not looked at the Thule fork mount enough to know if it has sliding adjustment while locked.

Now, one last bit, you could use the 54" bar, slide it to max one side (an asymmetrical plan) which would allow full overhang of the cargo box while supporting it fully underneath out to it's structural edge, then, mount two bikes easily on the other side between the box and the other rail, not going outside that opposite foot.

For that plan I would be mindful of cargo weight distribution both inside and on top of the car. I.E., balance the car left vs right and not overload the cargo box.

For me, I have loaded the heck out of it, while centered on the car but try to mostly put the lightest but bulkiest items up there.

Good luck.

I'll try to get some photos up of the car and cargo box more in profile. I have them from the trips but just not viewable yet.

Lotus99

ok, sorry took me a few days to reply, I read it a few times to make sure I got it!

At the end of the day, I need to figure out the bar size and cargo box size...

So, if I got it right (correct me pls. if I'm off):

1 - It's not possible to mount a box AND two bikes on a 50" bar (inside or outside of a footing). I'd need something like 53/54".
2 - Since Thule only makes 50 and 58 sizes, I'd have to get the 58 to have some flexibility for down the road. A 50 would probably only allow one bike and a box (in which I suppose I could put the other bike), so I might be able to get away with that, but for the extra $10, if I can put up with the visuals of an 8 inch longer bar, I should probably just get that and stop thinking about it?
3 - The bike carriers - To lock the bike, you'd need to have a cable lock that goes thru the bike and the carrier? Or do they somehow have their own locks?
4 - If I mount the bike on the outside of a foot, I could always use a cable lock around a footing/bar, no? As much as it's a PITA...
5 - Why do people get a fork mounted carrier instead of one of these, which I was going to get, as it seems the easiest to put the bike on? http://www.rei.com/product/799926/th...ght-bike-mount
6 - Maybe I should just get one of these hatch mounted ones for now? Or are they a PITA to put on and off constantly? http://www.rei.com/product/799930/th...ike-trunk-rack

7 - Cargo box size... help! With so many sizes and different shapes, I don't know what to get. Is the 2100 overkill for a family like ours, or if we're going to get a box, for the small incremental cost of getting the biggest / one with most useful features (like opens on either side), I should just go for the nicest anyway and get it over with?

I suck at decisions! LOL!

norsecarnut

1-you can mount 2 bikes and a box within the factory rails depending on the box width. we used a 1200 for a while and i thought we fit 3 bikes and it on the 328it but i may have pushed the box out past the rail when the 3rd bike was added.
2-58" !!!!
3-lock whichever way you prefer but there are various ways to do so. when using a form mount, the higher end models have a locking option using a lock core set. upright mounts have locking mechanisms too. none of these lock your back wheel or both wheels though so a cable is useful but when you are really worried, your bike shouldn't be there anyway!
4-yes, but not really that much of a pita.
5-fork mount is the most secure. period. for a mountain bike that uses a thru axle requiring tools to remove, an upright carrier is very nice and if not used, you have to get a fork adapter anyway so might as well have upright for any "big" bikes. or, for muddy mtn bikes, upright is nice so muddy wheels aren't in the car.

Not all upright carriers are created equal whereas fork mounts are pretty much equally stable regardless of price level. to me, the only upright i would ever, ever, have my bikes on is the wheel holding style but thule or yakima or similar. it has a strong mechanical design in it's leverage holding the top of the wheel. i do not like the frame holding style where it clamps onto the frame along the down tube.

yes, i am picky! but i've been racking bikes since 1985 and i'm not clamping a $10,000 bike on it's down tube!

6- really, hatch mount on a wagon? seriously? go for it, and forget about opening the hatch for anything, nor the glass section.... and hang all that crap against your paint and/or glass. bad idea in my opinion for a car with so many better options. i'd sooner put bikes inside the car than on a hatch mount.
7-i don't know if you've described the "family like ours", number of people, how much stuff, activities, length of trips, type of stuff.... ? i had to start with length needed for the nordic skiis, then i ended up liking the ability to cram so much stuff up there that 4 adults could camp and still have room in the cargo area for 2-4 cases of produce from the local farms on the other side of the pass

However, we used the 1200 for the first couple years and it was fine for snowboards and alpine skis and it's tall for it's width. fuel economy is lower the more frontal area you create though so skinny and long is better than wide but short length.

I'm now getting 27 mpg with the rooftop clear of anything. having the bike rack on the hitch allows this and i'm loving the fuel economy

opening both sides is actually a nice feature but the nicest ones are sometimes built better overall.

good luck!

Sarge

In other news, I did get the wheels fitted. The size and offset is fine (18x8 ET35 front, 18x9 ET38 rear), although I think I may get some wider tires for the rear as the 245's on 9" wheel is a tad stretched when compared to the fronts on a 8" wheels. Not too bad, but enough to annoy me a little. That or I may order another set of 8" wheels for the rear. Still undecided. I'm also still waiting on my Umnitza bumper. They ship via Greyhound, and apparently Greyhound figured out after the fact that they have no terminal within 100 miles of me. Ugh. The Huper Optik tint guy has also gone MIA on me too (he's about 200 miles away). Slowly, it's coming together...

norsecarnut

Looks good. I considered those wheels too. I'd just live with the slight stretch in order to retain the identical rolling diameter but I suppose you can't rotate the wheels for tire wear anyway without dismounting them. At my own size of 245/45x18, I could have gone with 255/40x18 in the rear had I opted for the staggered set up 8.5-9.5 but mine are all 4 8.5 currently. I still debate getting the 9.5's

norsecarnut

So back to the original topic of rear hitches. Check this out, would be funny as hell for my wagon but it would pull my full size spare out of the cargo area, allow me to use a Thule "spare Me" dual bike holder, and enough weight out past the bumper to totally destroy the handling of the car I'm sure

Sarge

Did you mean to post a link to something above?

I have one of those Thule's on my Wrangler, and it works great for 'around town' type stuff. I've even used it to carry camping gear! Don't have any really good pictures, but here it is on my previous TJ:

norsecarnut

cool shot. how long was that exposure?

here's the link: http://www.tiregate.com/hg_series_0.shtml

norsecarnut

Bike Hauling:

out of curiosity, I managed to put my 29" full suspension mountain bike inside the wagon standing UPRIGHT with the seat post out and of course front wheel off. This may seem obviously possible but I was surprised because of the larger 29" mtb tire/wheel and overall larger size of a full suspension 29" bike frame. Mine is a "large" or otherwise a 19" I think in Specialized geometry.

With the seat down of course, it just rolled straight in to the backside of the front seat and the rear hatch closes with room to spare, although my testing was done with a doubled over towel on the bar/stem in case it made contact with window.

For 2 person trips, this would allow 2 bikes to go inside along with associated gear if there is concern about having it outside the car in the weather. Any road bike would fit easier seeing as the wheel/tire is smaller diameter and front end is shorter. (normally a mtn bike stem/bar is higher from the ground and thus center of front wheel compared to a road bike)

For gear arrangement, one could have the bike(s) in the middle with space on either side for gear bags, food bins, etc. easily accessible from the side doors or rear hatch.

My only concern about bikes inside a car is if a bad thief is determined, you'll loose a window along with the bike, or just a window if your bikes are locked down to the frame. The best plan is to cover anything like this inside a car so it's not a visible temptation!