Originally Posted by Rudy' post='529342' date='Feb 9 2008, 03:53 PM

I understand a bit better now. I'm basing my opinion on the fact that the car was registered in the father's name and it's more than likely not a car that an 18 year old kid could own outright. If my 18 year old could afford an M5 and bought it or leased it in his name, then sure, there's not much I'd be able to do except try to talk to him about being responsible behind the wheel (and maybe even pay for some advance driving schools...) If the more likely scenario was that the father either let the kid drive his car or gave it to him as a "gift" but kept it registered in his name, then I think he would have had every right to engage the parental controls -- even if the kid was an adult. It may be a tough call but my position would be "I don't care if you're over 18 -- if you want this car, it's not going to be fully "unleashable" until you demonstrate the maturity and responsibility that comes with experience behind the wheel." If he had a problem with that, I'd let him know that he could pick a different car.

It's very similar to the "as long as you live under my roof, you have to obey my rules -- regardless of your age" deal that many parents tell their "adult" children...

Originally Posted by studavis' post='547408' date='Mar 19 2008, 03:12 AM

To bring up a point that has been left out, and that is the issue of maturity and respect for things, something that is both learned and experienced. I was 17 when my dad handed me my own set of keys to his 930 turbo carrera. He taught me how to control the throttle, and how when the turbo kicked in, to anticipate the kick, and be able to react to it. He put me in the left seat, and made me corner the car with the go fast pedal, and learn to bring the tail in with bursts of throttle. I learned to respect what the car did, and became adept at driving the car within my limits. My own values kept me from drinking, and trying to get a car going fast enough to rotate off a runway, and I will admit on several occasions taking the car to Vne. But I had experience, and respect for what the car could do, and not being to egotistical, but the M5 is about 300 years more refined than the 930 was. It was the same when I first soloed, and after stepping up to is 210 with just 125 hours total time. Bottom line, maturity can be found at all ages, and in this case, it appears to not been the case.

Originally Posted by gene1' post='548997' date='Mar 22 2008, 06:35 AM

A lot has been written by all (including myself) about parental responsibility and immature drivers and all the other causes that led to this tragedy.
It occurs to me that as many as there are causes for this, and as much responsibility there is to be passed around, in the end this was in fact a random occurrence of chance. There are very many kids and adults who do things on the roads every day, that if they ended in tragedy, we could all point and say "Of course, with that sort of driving its no wonder they were killed".
But most dont wind up this way, so as many lessons as there are to take from this I think the most important one is (IMHO) "sh!t happens and sometimes it happens to those you love and there isn't a thing you can do about it".... just think of the kids in the back seat of this M5 if you want an illustration.

I hope the parents of these young men can one day find some peace.

Originally Posted by grover432' post='550021' date='Mar 24 2008, 02:37 PM

Yeah, I agree. Allowing the kid to drive a race car built for the road and not correctly assessing his maturity led to a random freak accident that was 1 million to one. I don't think so! The fact is there are hundreds of these incidents in the US every year. This one made headlines because the extreme operation of an extreme vehicle resulted in a sensational crash. The M5 has really two purposes: (1) to go fast; (2) to provide entertaining transportation. To an 18 year old, #1 is the only thing most would see. If you think differently, you better make sure you know your kid well, or after you hand your kid the keys, you may be burying him just as this parent had to do (if he could find all of the pieces). You can stick your head in the sand and say "shit happens". I agree, when you don't take the necessary caution with your kids, shit is more likely to happen.

Originally Posted by gene1' post='548997' date='Mar 22 2008, 07:35 AM

A lot has been written by all (including myself) about parental responsibility and immature drivers and all the other causes that led to this tragedy.
It occurs to me that as many as there are causes for this, and as much responsibility there is to be passed around, in the end this was in fact a random occurrence of chance. There are very many kids and adults who do things on the roads every day, that if they ended in tragedy, we could all point and say "Of course, with that sort of driving its no wonder they were killed".