Feb 2007 Car & Driver Comparison Test.
12-23-2006, 11:08 AM
#11
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I think they should give a boost to the m5 and m6 in march with the facelift or whenever the Ms get their facelift.
just an idea.MB has its new AMG so BMW should update i think.
just an idea.MB has its new AMG so BMW should update i think.
12-23-2006, 03:07 PM
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My Ride: 2014 X5 xDrive 5.0 M Package Carbon Black Metallic/2008 M Roadster Imola Red
Not to mention the AMG CLS and the AMG 550 (i.e., I think there is one). But, still I like the M5 styling better than most--maybe not the CLS though--it's close (racy good looks vs slick good looks).
12-26-2006, 07:26 PM
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My Ride: 2006 550i SMG
According to their numbers, the M5 should have been 2nd for sure 
....The amazing thing is the MB claims 507HP and 20MPG!!!!
....of course not in these performance conditions!
....The amazing thing is the MB claims 507HP and 20MPG!!!!....of course not in these performance conditions!
12-26-2006, 07:35 PM
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What these testers can't experience, and won't unless they live with one for a good while, is the main reason why I sold my E55 and other late model Benz cars. They just are not that exciting or satisfying to drive. The power in the 211 E55 is terrific, and I'm sure it's better in the 63. But the air ride in the 211 sux, steering is quite numb, and the gadgetry is still not all that great. After a while, that motor still sounds good, but that wears off after a while, and the rest of it just ain't all that. I would rather drive my SL500, which has better road feel and a better air suspension, even with 150+ less horspower. I would love to try an RS 4 or S 6, but haven't done so. Just my .02...
12-27-2006, 03:54 PM
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Just got the magazine, hunted down this forum to see what people are saying about it.
Supposedly the new AMG cars, with the new engine, are much more satisfying to drive. But I cannot report on this personally.
What I can report is that something is very wrong when a nose-heavy and just plain heavy Audi gets higher scores for steering feel and handling than the rear-drive E63 and M5. They also rated the M5 least fun to drive.
I have driven the regular versions of all three, and find it very hard to believe that the Audi steers and handles the best. But if this is true, then BMW is doing something very wrong, to have so thoroughly squandered the advantages of lighter weight and a much more balanced weight distribution.
In general, I think Car & Driver delights in punishing BMW for its over-engineered electronics. No BMW with iDrive will ever win one of their comparisons, because they're intent on getting a point across. Ditto with stability control systems that cannot be disabled.
My general take on comparison tests, and those in C&D in particular:
Comparison tests, what are they good for?
Supposedly the new AMG cars, with the new engine, are much more satisfying to drive. But I cannot report on this personally.
What I can report is that something is very wrong when a nose-heavy and just plain heavy Audi gets higher scores for steering feel and handling than the rear-drive E63 and M5. They also rated the M5 least fun to drive.
I have driven the regular versions of all three, and find it very hard to believe that the Audi steers and handles the best. But if this is true, then BMW is doing something very wrong, to have so thoroughly squandered the advantages of lighter weight and a much more balanced weight distribution.
In general, I think Car & Driver delights in punishing BMW for its over-engineered electronics. No BMW with iDrive will ever win one of their comparisons, because they're intent on getting a point across. Ditto with stability control systems that cannot be disabled.
My general take on comparison tests, and those in C&D in particular:
Comparison tests, what are they good for?
12-28-2006, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Znod' post='370581' date='Dec 23 2006, 11:46 PM
Hi Cidar and BMW:
These are my issues with the M5 and the M6.
US launch control restricted;
Agree. This would really be a pain in the ass if i were to buy an M5 in US. This is just plain stupid...
Incredibly poor gas milage;
Yeah but what would you expect from a 5 liter v10. I know you guys overthere find the engine "small" but overhere in Europe it's quite alot.
SMG is an antiquated transmission;
Compared to DSG type or what? I really find it yeah like pretty old in concept but it get perfected each time even though each new generation comes with problems but this is just a time problem. SMGIII still one of the best, and the shift times really rivalise with those from Ferrari gearboxes.
Can't leave stability control completely on and completely disable traction control simultaneously;
I get your point but i don't understand why would you need that.
Low torque engine relative to HP; and
Never expect smth different from a high revy NA engine. It's always been the same and in a way i really like it. Unless you start to use FI or really big displacements then the torque will always be low compared to hp. In the 997 GT3 it's even "worse" (not in my standards
) 405NM and 415bhp
Gets beaten up in a straight line by cars it should at least be the equal of.
Which are...? Ok some AMGs from it's class from standstill, but in some tests barely.
But, yes, it has many nice features. Still, for the reasons given, I, personally, would not buy one. 
These are my issues with the M5 and the M6.
US launch control restricted;
Agree. This would really be a pain in the ass if i were to buy an M5 in US. This is just plain stupid...
Incredibly poor gas milage;
Yeah but what would you expect from a 5 liter v10. I know you guys overthere find the engine "small" but overhere in Europe it's quite alot.
SMG is an antiquated transmission;
Compared to DSG type or what? I really find it yeah like pretty old in concept but it get perfected each time even though each new generation comes with problems but this is just a time problem. SMGIII still one of the best, and the shift times really rivalise with those from Ferrari gearboxes.
Can't leave stability control completely on and completely disable traction control simultaneously;
I get your point but i don't understand why would you need that.
Low torque engine relative to HP; and
Never expect smth different from a high revy NA engine. It's always been the same and in a way i really like it. Unless you start to use FI or really big displacements then the torque will always be low compared to hp. In the 997 GT3 it's even "worse" (not in my standards
) 405NM and 415bhpGets beaten up in a straight line by cars it should at least be the equal of.
Which are...? Ok some AMGs from it's class from standstill, but in some tests barely.
But, yes, it has many nice features. Still, for the reasons given, I, personally,
12-28-2006, 05:54 AM
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i've driven the S6 and it felt less fun and responsive than my Sport suspension... you really feel the weight in a high speed s curve, like the car doesnt want to turn, only go straight through..its a lot oif power for sure...but its not that much of a fun car.....it has got the power though....
the M5 is a long way behind the AMGs but i dont think we will see a new engine anytime soon... the best i can wish for is a new DSG transmision that is faster, more resposive, and reliable... and maybe a little tuning to the engine squeze a little extra hp...
maybe that will close the gap to the mercedes..
the M5 is a long way behind the AMGs but i dont think we will see a new engine anytime soon... the best i can wish for is a new DSG transmision that is faster, more resposive, and reliable... and maybe a little tuning to the engine squeze a little extra hp...
maybe that will close the gap to the mercedes..
12-28-2006, 09:43 AM
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BMW's Replies to Me in Orange. Mine to him follow:
These are my issues with the M5 and the M6.
US launch control restricted;
Agree. This would really be a pain in the ass if i were to buy an M5 in US. This is just plain stupid...
Incredibly poor gas mileage;
Yeah but what would you expect from a 5 liter v10. I know you guys overthere find the engine "small" but overhere in Europe it's quite alot.
I don't understand the small part. Over here versus over there??? But, one can have a better accelerating car that gets hugely better gas mileage. That just happens to be what I am interested in. Why compromise? In this regard, if the M5 has the feel and handling you want, then why not have a faster car that gets way better gas mileage too?
SMG is an antiquated transmission;
Compared to DSG type or what? I really find it yeah like pretty old in concept but it get perfected each time even though each new generation comes with problems but this is just a time problem. SMGIII still one of the best, and the shift times really rivalise with those from Ferrari gearboxes.
Well, I am comparing to the MB/AMG automatic--whatever it is called. It does what is needed on the road with simplicity, quick shifting, and relative lack of complication. That's just what I like.
Can't leave stability control completely on and completely disable traction control simultaneously;
I get your point but i don't understand why would you need that.
I am interested in straight-line performance. Except under extreme conditions one would not want any form of traction control on when trying to get the max is a straight line. But, you certainly would want stability control to save you if you get into trouble. The Z06, for example, works this way.
Low torque engine relative to HP; and
Never expect smth different from a high revy NA engine. It's always been the same and in a way i really like it. Unless you start to use FI or really big displacements then the torque will always be low compared to hp. In the 997 GT3 it's even "worse" (not in my standards grin.gif ) 405NM and 415bhp
Yes, it is personal preference.
Gets beaten up in a straight line by cars it should at least be the equal of.
Which are...? Ok some AMGs from it's class from standstill, but in some tests barely.
I don't like losing even just barely. On average, the AMG's clean house in numbers of acceleration contests and performance tests won. Another example is the 02-04 Z06 (a bit more than $50,000 new and only 400 HP).
These are my issues with the M5 and the M6.
US launch control restricted;
Agree. This would really be a pain in the ass if i were to buy an M5 in US. This is just plain stupid...
Incredibly poor gas mileage;
Yeah but what would you expect from a 5 liter v10. I know you guys overthere find the engine "small" but overhere in Europe it's quite alot.
I don't understand the small part. Over here versus over there??? But, one can have a better accelerating car that gets hugely better gas mileage. That just happens to be what I am interested in. Why compromise? In this regard, if the M5 has the feel and handling you want, then why not have a faster car that gets way better gas mileage too?
SMG is an antiquated transmission;
Compared to DSG type or what? I really find it yeah like pretty old in concept but it get perfected each time even though each new generation comes with problems but this is just a time problem. SMGIII still one of the best, and the shift times really rivalise with those from Ferrari gearboxes.
Well, I am comparing to the MB/AMG automatic--whatever it is called. It does what is needed on the road with simplicity, quick shifting, and relative lack of complication. That's just what I like.
Can't leave stability control completely on and completely disable traction control simultaneously;
I get your point but i don't understand why would you need that.
I am interested in straight-line performance. Except under extreme conditions one would not want any form of traction control on when trying to get the max is a straight line. But, you certainly would want stability control to save you if you get into trouble. The Z06, for example, works this way.
Low torque engine relative to HP; and
Never expect smth different from a high revy NA engine. It's always been the same and in a way i really like it. Unless you start to use FI or really big displacements then the torque will always be low compared to hp. In the 997 GT3 it's even "worse" (not in my standards grin.gif ) 405NM and 415bhp
Yes, it is personal preference.
Gets beaten up in a straight line by cars it should at least be the equal of.
Which are...? Ok some AMGs from it's class from standstill, but in some tests barely.
I don't like losing even just barely. On average, the AMG's clean house in numbers of acceleration contests and performance tests won. Another example is the 02-04 Z06 (a bit more than $50,000 new and only 400 HP).
01-03-2007, 07:06 AM
#19
didn't you know C&D is favor to american cars? and yet MBZ is american own. they didn't give good review for MBZ before chyrsler took over, can't it be more obvious? don't let them brainwash you!
01-03-2007, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by baadaaboo' post='373225' date='Jan 3 2007, 11:06 AM
didn't you know C&D is favor to american cars? and yet MBZ is american own. they didn't give good review for MBZ before chyrsler took over, can't it be more obvious? don't let them brainwash you!