Rudy

The house analogy doesn't neccessarily mesh with my reasons for not modifying things on a car that can affect the overall package as engineered by BMW.

Sure, I repaint the house to my liking but doing so doesn't cause any changes to the structural integrity of the house as designed by professional architects. If I choose to build an addition, I'll hire someone similarly trained so that I won't cause any problems structurally, etc.

Basically, I'm with Iceman -- I'll possibly modify things (like interior parts) to make it "mine" but I'm not one to mess with something that can have undesireable side effects of the car's dynamics like lowering suspension, changing wheel/tire sizes, etc. I do not have access to the same engineering talent that BMW has access to. I won't simply bolt on stuff and Mickey Mouse things to get everything to work. (Changing wheels but needing to add spacers, etc. so things wont rub, etc.)

Dinan, etc. does more than throw bigger wheels at a car -- they spend considerable time and resources re-engineering a new package. If I were to choose to modify my car, I'd utilize these aftermarket specialists and not simply go at it alone as I see so many doing now.

Again, my two cents worth.

Side note: Isn't it amazing how well we can have this sort of intelligent discussion without it turning into a flame war like it would have become over on RF? Thanks to all of you for your respective contributions to this board!

Iceman

Rudy, I totally agree !!! In every word !!!

Rudy

I think that's a point well made.

It also sort of solidifies what I'm trying to say. Spending $50K to modify an E60 would most likely result in a well engineered "package" that might go as far as recalibrating sensors, etc. to compensate for the changes. I'm sure Steve Dinan could do wonders for that amount of cash.

Iceman

I'm sure Dinan would even make the CD drive playing MP3's.

But that's the point.
I wouldn't do it, and if, then a pro woul take care for me (like the ACS guys).
But I like the understatement.
That's my taste. Other ppl, other tastes.
I've seen a 7series on delivery at my dealer when I was waiting. It had BMW Individual and an upgrade on the wheels. They added 22" wheels. For my taste there was just the big sign "Pimp Daddy" on the side doors missing, but this guy liked it - and... WHY NOT ?
No problem... But I wouldn't do it...

wolverine

Of course, like anything, you can go too far. You don't want to mess with complex engineered systems that only a professional is qualified to work on. Same as with a house. I can put in a deck myself, and do some basic wiring, but I'll let a pro route the gas lines to our stove.

It depends on how comfortable you are modifying what BMW starts with. I'm comfortable with all the mod's I'm making because I've talked with experts on the wheels and tires, and the other mod's are cosmetic (I'm also gonna put electrical tape over the led in the 'passenger airbag off' light). I'll do some pretty extensive research before changing the CDV.

I'm a design engineer, and have done some consulting work for car companies on engines. I can tell you that any car design is full of compromises, no matter how well engineered. The 545 is full of compromises - and it is one of the best engineered cars on the road. The engineers have to have a specification outlining what their 'average' customer wants in terms of performance. Not everyone is the same, hence, people make modifications to the original design.

Structural mod's can make a car 'better' because you are willing to spend more money than BMW did (generally components of the same design, but superior materials or manufacturing process). Or modifications can change the overall balance of the car - such as giving up a bit of ride comfort for better handling, or trading a 'forgiving' clutch for one that is more precise. And, if you make the wrong modifications you can have some major problems.

My modifying the 545 does not mean the engineers didn't do a good job, it just means that as a car enthusiast, my car is important, I know what I want, and I'm making the car better for me. That very well may not make the car better for you, and that's OK, you can modify your car too if you want, or not.

Jimbo

Some people have trouble crossing the street, other people climb mountains.

Asking why someone would mod a car is like asking someone why they would climb a mountain.

Life's good in America because we all have choices.

drinkh20

Jimbo and Wolverine-
Great responses from the "mod squad"...I think I understand now...I'm not going to run out and drop $10,000 on new wheels, tires, etc...but I understand.
thanks

Aaron

I wanted to respond to this yesterday, but ran out of time. First of all let me say great question and let me also say that the note under the topic, "An intelligent discussion..." while I understand why you wrote it drinkh2O, I don't think it was necessary (only because this board is so great). Everyone here seems to be constructive in mind, and the discussion would have been an intelligent one even without the note.

Now, onto the question. I will just repeat what others have stated. It is all about being an individual with different likes and dislikes. While you may find BMW wheels nice others may not. We all know the wheels on the 545-sport make the car look extremely nicer than the base 525 wheels. Spending 10k for a set, I don't know, but I do understand the desire to upgrade certain aspects of the looks. Nice subtle changes inside (wood shifter, clean IPOD install, Stealth Radar, Nice alloy wheels with a polished lip, etc.) Like one of the posts stated before, anything can be taken too far, and for me, whenever you try to make your car look like a different car, then you've wasted your money...body panelling mods, outrageous ground effects, huge wings, etc.

As for the engineering side of things. I have worked on the electronic control systems for both ABS and TCS, as well as electronic suspension systems, and while change to the wheels and other components may slightly change performance, the calibrations used for ABS are so "raw" that a slight change in wheel diameter will not affect the ABS or TCS. There is a tradeoff there between looks/style/individuality and performance. BMW puts in thousands upon thousands of hours designing these vehicles and they are optimized, but that optimization is adaptable enough to accomodate different driving/road conditions, different driving habits (hard/soft acceleration, braking, etc.) None of us drive the same, but BMWs are adaptable enough to satisfy a wide range of potential buys, from the hardest driver to the the driver holding up the fast lane. Engine mods, mechanically changing the structure of the vehicle, even springs/lowering, scares me a bit, but wheels, and grill enhancements, and interior touches, and the amount of QUALITY aftermarket components for BMWs is what also makes them so appealing.

Lastly, I just don't want someone else to have the exact some car as I do. No mods would be a bit boring...in my opinion.

Sorry for the long reply. Thanks for reading!

jonboy

Great discussion and topic.

I have opted to add a ACS front spoiler. Two points, ACS are a quality manufacturer, I wouldn't want any old stuff glued to my car. Secondly, it is about making the car unique.

However, I have to admit to more emotional feelings....Whilst the car is still new I do feel compelled to add other bits and pieces to get more out of it. I agree with previous posts regarding adding kit that might effect the engineering integity of the car, but in my view if you stick with Alpina, ACS, Dinan, Hartge or Hannman you can rest assured that the item is good quality AND does not adversely affect vehicle dynamics.

I am seriously tempted to add a sports exhaust to my 545i just to get more of a fruity v8 sound. I'd go to ACS for reasons of BMW approval and quality. The result for me would be a more indivudual package and hopefully a better product.

Jonboy

bimmer_w

it's personal preference. people have different behavior, likes/dislikes, taste. its simply because they can. hell, people modify guns just because they want to make them look better or perform better. for what? not all people will see your gun co'z you can't go out in public flashing a gun, right? some pistols are well engineered and only have one purpose, to shoot. what is there not to understand why people modify cars? I'm pretty sure all of us do things that other people don't understand why we do it and maybe you just don't know that you're already doing things that other don't understand why you do it. say, women buy lots of shoes and bags, do they really need all those? i'm pretty sure they will say they do. then guys ask why, that's just like the question that this thread started with. why change or modify such a fine machine. hahaha, here's something funny, why do other people pick their nose with their index fingers and then other people use their pinky and others use all their fingers one after the other. lol! simply because it's what they want. they have reason behind it that you probably won't agree.


the only difference is its a car that you chose to ask why.

i think i'm already drunk.