Customizing???
07-13-2004, 12:43 PM
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I'm curious as to the need to customize your E60. I'd be interested in understanding why people do this. Is it purely out of individuality? Performance? A sense of improved looks? Is it an age thing? Let's keep the conversation civil...
A few thoughts and questions...
Why customize an incredibly well-engineered automobile?
I've read posts from people who have customized their wheels, tires, etc. and now have problems with various OBC-related readouts. Aren't these issues (however minor) to be expected? I assume you either get them fixed or learn to live with them?
Why not spend the money elsewhere?
It might be my imagination but it seems that most of the E60's being customized are 525's and 530's. I also sense that you guys are spending some significant dollars customizing your cars. Did anyone consider buying the next version up and getting a bigger engine, sport package, etc.? In the end, a lowered 525 with custom wheels, tires and exhaust is still going to be slower then a 530 or 545. Or maybe it isn't about speed and handling?
Please don't misinterpret my tone...I'm just trying to understand the mindset and rationale.
A few thoughts and questions...
Why customize an incredibly well-engineered automobile?
I've read posts from people who have customized their wheels, tires, etc. and now have problems with various OBC-related readouts. Aren't these issues (however minor) to be expected? I assume you either get them fixed or learn to live with them?
Why not spend the money elsewhere?
It might be my imagination but it seems that most of the E60's being customized are 525's and 530's. I also sense that you guys are spending some significant dollars customizing your cars. Did anyone consider buying the next version up and getting a bigger engine, sport package, etc.? In the end, a lowered 525 with custom wheels, tires and exhaust is still going to be slower then a 530 or 545. Or maybe it isn't about speed and handling?
Please don't misinterpret my tone...I'm just trying to understand the mindset and rationale.
07-13-2004, 12:47 PM
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Not a fan of it myself, and in the UK I'd say it's pretty rare on a car of this calibre. Usually you find the modding brigade are 18 year old's with Vauxhall Nova's or Peugeot 106's etc.
Neon lights /shudder/
Neon lights /shudder/
07-13-2004, 12:51 PM
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My Ride: F02 LCI Individual
Model Year: 2013
I wouldn't do it on the outside. But I add things to make it look better in the inside, like wooden shifter and hand brake lever or lighted door sills.
I don't like adding aftermarket wheels and stuff like that.
I don't like adding aftermarket wheels and stuff like that.
07-13-2004, 01:00 PM
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My Ride: '04 545i/6sp SilverGray/Beige
I'm only interested in light, non-invasive mods that either make the car more usable (i.e. CPT-9000 phone), more individual (i.e. the M-tecnic front fascia and M5 mirrors, or red reflectors, or wood/leather shift knob), or slightly more performant (i.e. my CDV delete or a short-shift-kit, or maybe a DINAN cold-air-intake or suspension bits). I've never been one to spend the thousands of dollars necessary on new wheels and rubber (since I happen to like the BMW wheels, generally), and there are very few aftermarket wheels that I like.
I like having my cars under warranty, so I will almost never get involved in the invasive power mods. Not to mention that my wife would almost instantly veto anything like that.
-MrB
I like having my cars under warranty, so I will almost never get involved in the invasive power mods. Not to mention that my wife would almost instantly veto anything like that.
-MrB
07-13-2004, 01:22 PM
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I don't think it has much to do with what model you have, since I've seen just about every one, to include M5's, 7 series, etc., modded before.
I would relate it to why you would make changes to your home. Normally you would make changes based on individuality, improved looks, perceived improvements. So why would a car be any different?
I don't think there has ever been a "perfect" car built that someone couldn't improve on. IMO, subtle, tasteful changes can greatly improve the standard car.
However, sometimes they can have the opposite effect though.
I would relate it to why you would make changes to your home. Normally you would make changes based on individuality, improved looks, perceived improvements. So why would a car be any different?
I don't think there has ever been a "perfect" car built that someone couldn't improve on. IMO, subtle, tasteful changes can greatly improve the standard car.
However, sometimes they can have the opposite effect though.
07-13-2004, 01:23 PM
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My Ride: G30 M550i
Model Year: 2018
Below is a quote from a post I made a while ago on the subject of wheel/tire mods:
Originally Posted by by Rudy in thread: [url=http://e60.doit.wisc.edu/forums/index.php?showtopic=1106
http://e60.doit.wisc.edu/forums/inde...showtopic=1106[/url]]
One other huge technical thing to consider:
The speedometer is really the least of your worries. These cars rely heavily on a multitude of sensors, etc. that are calibrated with a certain level of precision.
For example, the ABS, DSC, DTC, Active Steering, Active Roll, etc. systems use the wheel speed sensor readings in their computer programs. If you change things like wheels/tires, which almost always causes a different (sometimes slight) outside diameter, you basically feed the sensors and all these systems false data. In addition, the suspension is tuned as a package. Adding wheels from the sport package on a non-sport package car isn't necessarily going to match up with the rest of the components.
The mechanical engineers at BMW, I think we'll all agree, are pretty darn good at what they do. (Let's not get into the BMW software engineers -- that's a whole other deal!) Hell, it's pretty safe to say that all the German manufacturers excel in the mechanical engineering arena. What's my point? Simple. These guys are way smarter than me (and most likely the rest of us regular folk) and the manufacturers spend tons and tons of money designing and testing everything so the entire package works as well as we've all seen and experienced. For that reason, I wouldn't think of changing anything on my car that would possibly affect the specifications of these well engineered systems. I don't need ABS, DSC, etc. kicking in too late or too early and I certainly don't want any unexpected behavior to occur under extreme conditions.
I'm pretty sure there's no way for someone to recalibrate any of these sensors for variances in wheel sizes, offsets, etc. The only sensor I'm aware of that can be recalibrated is the FTM (flat tire monitor).
Call me conservative or call me an alarmist -- it's just my two cents.
One other huge technical thing to consider:
The speedometer is really the least of your worries. These cars rely heavily on a multitude of sensors, etc. that are calibrated with a certain level of precision.
For example, the ABS, DSC, DTC, Active Steering, Active Roll, etc. systems use the wheel speed sensor readings in their computer programs. If you change things like wheels/tires, which almost always causes a different (sometimes slight) outside diameter, you basically feed the sensors and all these systems false data. In addition, the suspension is tuned as a package. Adding wheels from the sport package on a non-sport package car isn't necessarily going to match up with the rest of the components.
The mechanical engineers at BMW, I think we'll all agree, are pretty darn good at what they do. (Let's not get into the BMW software engineers -- that's a whole other deal!) Hell, it's pretty safe to say that all the German manufacturers excel in the mechanical engineering arena. What's my point? Simple. These guys are way smarter than me (and most likely the rest of us regular folk) and the manufacturers spend tons and tons of money designing and testing everything so the entire package works as well as we've all seen and experienced. For that reason, I wouldn't think of changing anything on my car that would possibly affect the specifications of these well engineered systems. I don't need ABS, DSC, etc. kicking in too late or too early and I certainly don't want any unexpected behavior to occur under extreme conditions.
I'm pretty sure there's no way for someone to recalibrate any of these sensors for variances in wheel sizes, offsets, etc. The only sensor I'm aware of that can be recalibrated is the FTM (flat tire monitor).
Call me conservative or call me an alarmist -- it's just my two cents.
07-13-2004, 01:58 PM
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Agreed Rudy...well written.
JBOO-I'm not sure the home analogy works. People build homes all the time and work through the various options of appliances, cabinets, flooring, etc. They stay within their budget and the home gets built to their specs. After it's built, they don't immediately begin changing the various options they decided on. Granted, the options on building a home are greater (virtually unlimited) then the options on a car. Updating a home is a different story. If the kitchen needs to be remolded after it's become out of date...that makes sense.
JBOO-I'm not sure the home analogy works. People build homes all the time and work through the various options of appliances, cabinets, flooring, etc. They stay within their budget and the home gets built to their specs. After it's built, they don't immediately begin changing the various options they decided on. Granted, the options on building a home are greater (virtually unlimited) then the options on a car. Updating a home is a different story. If the kitchen needs to be remolded after it's become out of date...that makes sense.
07-13-2004, 02:38 PM
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Great topic, drink. I'm actually looking forward to the responses. Alright, you got me - i went to larger wheels strictly for the looks. I simply like the look of a larger wheel with a lowered chassis. And, while i'm well versed in the laws of physics, unsprung weight, rolling inertia, premature brake wear, etc., the minute changes in acceleration, top speed, handling, or TCO won't be noticeable, to me. In effect, this car is overengineered for the things i plan on doing. I may be the only guy on this board who hasn't exceeded 100 mph on a public freeway, or gone to a track, but i don't plan to. So i'm left to admire her in the driveway, or pull up to a restaurant and have my ego stroked. There, i admitted it, i got it for the looks - but don't try to take it away.
Modding high end? Dinan, Brabus, AMG, Lorinser, Hartge, AC would beg to differ <_<
Modding high end? Dinan, Brabus, AMG, Lorinser, Hartge, AC would beg to differ <_<
07-13-2004, 02:50 PM
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Hi Rudy,
Perhaps an analogy will shed some light. Do you change anything when you move into a house? You might repaint parts just to make it look more appealing to you, or you might remodel or even change the structure in some ways. You don't always do things just to repair, you do it to make the house more appealing to you. That is why people modify their cars, to enjoy them more than they would otherwise.
For me, I'm putting on 19" wheels, Goodyear F1 tires, a UUC short shifter, and euro reflectors, and wood shift, e-brake, and rear panel sections. I'm also putting on 35% tint all around, and might do something to the CD valve. The 545 is a great car, but for me, these changes make it even better.
Perhaps an analogy will shed some light. Do you change anything when you move into a house? You might repaint parts just to make it look more appealing to you, or you might remodel or even change the structure in some ways. You don't always do things just to repair, you do it to make the house more appealing to you. That is why people modify their cars, to enjoy them more than they would otherwise.
For me, I'm putting on 19" wheels, Goodyear F1 tires, a UUC short shifter, and euro reflectors, and wood shift, e-brake, and rear panel sections. I'm also putting on 35% tint all around, and might do something to the CD valve. The 545 is a great car, but for me, these changes make it even better.
07-13-2004, 03:33 PM
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Go to any car show and you'll have your answer.
I've seen $50k (USD) put into a Honda Civic.
I've seen $50k of mods added to a brand new corvette.
I've seen $30k paint jobs.
I've seen $30k engines.
Chip Foos will build you a car from scratch for about $500k.
etc,etc,etc.
Why not the E60?
I've seen $50k (USD) put into a Honda Civic.
I've seen $50k of mods added to a brand new corvette.
I've seen $30k paint jobs.
I've seen $30k engines.
Chip Foos will build you a car from scratch for about $500k.
etc,etc,etc.
Why not the E60?